Intrepid
Major
I changed my mind, it is to early to say that. The flight deck of the mock-up seems to be reassigned, maybe just a differently shaped ski ramp is built. But we will find out soon.
PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
- Thread starter bd popeye
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antiterror13
Brigadier
I thought now might be a good time to look at the major configurations that the carrier mock up have gone through.
Configuration 1, CV-16: construction began 2009/2010
Everything was quite representative of the Liaoning; the island foot print as well as the island's overall geometry, as well as the ski jump. The overall size of the entire building making up the "hull" of the mock up was also quite close in size to the Liaoning as well.
The fact that Liaoning was the first carrier to build this "carrier mock up facility" meant it made sense to build certain key structures similar to Liaoning; i.e.: the island's overall structure as well as the dimensions of the "hull" building. Certain key sensors were sequentially added to the island, for EM testing.
Configuration 2, likely 001A: modification occurred 2014
The modification here was relatively minor -- the most visible change was to the island, where two slanted structures were added on the front and aft, seemingly with faces that may suggest they are new APAR configurations, though it does not appear any actual radars were fitted aboard these slanted faces.
The common consensus was that this modification would be somewhat representative of 001A's island design.
However, it is yet to be seen whether the 001A's island will be an exact representative clone of Configuration 2's island geometry -- i.e.: same overall island footprint and size as CV-16, and basically everything the same except for the new slanted structures for suspected APAR faces. I personally expect 001A's island to have a similar configuration to CV-16, but with a slightly smaller/reduced footprint, and that it will combine slanted structures on Configuration 2's island mock up in some way, but in a more elegant and integrated fashion than on Configuration 2's island mock up where it was merely "stacked" on top of the existing CV-16 style island.
That said, it is also possible that the slanted structures may not be present on 001A at all, if they found it lacking for some reason. But at this moment I suspect they probably will be present on 001A, and we will soon know once we see 001A's island.
Note, in Configuration 2, the ski jump was retained. This was consistent with rumours at the time that 001A would be a ski jump carrier based on the Liaoning with some minor improvements, and also chronologically/temporally consistent with the eventual revelation of 001A construction occurring in early 2015.
Configuration 3, likely 003: modification ongoing, began in 2016
This modification was more substantial than the change from Configuration 1 to 2, it included not only the removal of the slanted face APAR configurations on the island, but also the addition of a new, larger deckhouse above the CV-16 style deckhouse. More obviously, is the removal or possibly modification of the ski jump.
At this stage it's reasonable to assume that the latest modfications are at least partially representative of 002, a carrier which is persistently rumoured to be a catapult equipped carrier (thus explaining the removal of the ski jump). Of course, it's possible the ski jump is merely being modified to a new ski jump design... but this is very unlikely, given there are no indications that 002 would be a ski jump carrier. It is possible Configuration 3 may be meant to represent 001A instead, but this is also unlikely because it will likely retain a ski jump which is very similar if not identical to that of CV-16.
In regards to the island's modifications, I personally believe it is meant to be a new deckhouse/bridge, and that the CV-16 style deckhouse will be retained on the mock up because removing it would require too much effort without any meaningful benefit, but that the actual carrier it is meant to represent will not have both the CV-16 style deckhouse as well as the new wider deckhouse above it.
If the latest modifications are partly representative for 002, it would also correspond with the rumoured construction of 002 at JNCX which is supposed to have recently begun, and may have evidence for within 2 years from now.
Overall, I think the key principle we can take away from the history of the mock up is that the real carrier associated with it (whether it's CV-16 or 001A or 002) may not present a direct, 100% representative model of what the real carrier will look like. There are a few reasons for this:
1: the overall size of the facility -- the dimensions of the mock up's "hull" is relatively fixed -- it is after all, a building in of itself, and it was fairly well associated with CV-16's size originally. But in the future, as the Navy would eventually develop larger carriers, it seems very unlikely that the size of the building will be substantially modified in coming years merely to present an accurate depiction of the real size. Putting it another way, the size of the building, or the "hull," won't change, but it will likely still be used to represent a variety of carrier hull sizes that will likely eventually be larger than CV-16.
2: the fixed nature of certain structures. We've seen that they've been willing to change certain "superficial" aspects of the mock up, including the topside geometry of the island, as well as remove or at least modify the ski jump (as seen in Configuration 3). However, these structures are relatively "easy" to remove or change, as they do not involve changing the foundation or lower level arrangement of any large structure. Other structures may be less difficult to change -- specifically, I'm thinking about the island's overall geometry and its foundations. The relatively fixed nature of the island's general geometry and foundations probably will not undergo major modification in coming years, and will retain its CV-16 profile and surface area, however it would probably be incorrect to assume that any modifications on it will therefore be representative of whatever carrier's island design it is intending to simulate. More likely, is that the CV-16 style island will be used as the fixed "frame" upon which certain representative design features of successive islands will be integrated upon, to eventually become a sort of "frankenstein's island" with various differing design features. Another unspoken consequence is that the mock up's island will probably be as "large" as the CV-16 style island began, but won't be reduced in size in coming years as it will likely be used to test new design aspects of new carrier islands -- which will almost definitely become successively smaller than CV-16's.
Configuration 1, CV-16: construction began 2009/2010
Everything was quite representative of the Liaoning; the island foot print as well as the island's overall geometry, as well as the ski jump. The overall size of the entire building making up the "hull" of the mock up was also quite close in size to the Liaoning as well.
The fact that Liaoning was the first carrier to build this "carrier mock up facility" meant it made sense to build certain key structures similar to Liaoning; i.e.: the island's overall structure as well as the dimensions of the "hull" building. Certain key sensors were sequentially added to the island, for EM testing.
Configuration 2, likely 001A: modification occurred 2014
The modification here was relatively minor -- the most visible change was to the island, where two slanted structures were added on the front and aft, seemingly with faces that may suggest they are new APAR configurations, though it does not appear any actual radars were fitted aboard these slanted faces.
The common consensus was that this modification would be somewhat representative of 001A's island design.
However, it is yet to be seen whether the 001A's island will be an exact representative clone of Configuration 2's island geometry -- i.e.: same overall island footprint and size as CV-16, and basically everything the same except for the new slanted structures for suspected APAR faces. I personally expect 001A's island to have a similar configuration to CV-16, but with a slightly smaller/reduced footprint, and that it will combine slanted structures on Configuration 2's island mock up in some way, but in a more elegant and integrated fashion than on Configuration 2's island mock up where it was merely "stacked" on top of the existing CV-16 style island.
That said, it is also possible that the slanted structures may not be present on 001A at all, if they found it lacking for some reason. But at this moment I suspect they probably will be present on 001A, and we will soon know once we see 001A's island.
Note, in Configuration 2, the ski jump was retained. This was consistent with rumours at the time that 001A would be a ski jump carrier based on the Liaoning with some minor improvements, and also chronologically/temporally consistent with the eventual revelation of 001A construction occurring in early 2015.
Configuration 3, likely 003: modification ongoing, began in 2016
This modification was more substantial than the change from Configuration 1 to 2, it included not only the removal of the slanted face APAR configurations on the island, but also the addition of a new, larger deckhouse above the CV-16 style deckhouse. More obviously, is the removal or possibly modification of the ski jump.
At this stage it's reasonable to assume that the latest modfications are at least partially representative of 002, a carrier which is persistently rumoured to be a catapult equipped carrier (thus explaining the removal of the ski jump). Of course, it's possible the ski jump is merely being modified to a new ski jump design... but this is very unlikely, given there are no indications that 002 would be a ski jump carrier. It is possible Configuration 3 may be meant to represent 001A instead, but this is also unlikely because it will likely retain a ski jump which is very similar if not identical to that of CV-16.
In regards to the island's modifications, I personally believe it is meant to be a new deckhouse/bridge, and that the CV-16 style deckhouse will be retained on the mock up because removing it would require too much effort without any meaningful benefit, but that the actual carrier it is meant to represent will not have both the CV-16 style deckhouse as well as the new wider deckhouse above it.
If the latest modifications are partly representative for 002, it would also correspond with the rumoured construction of 002 at JNCX which is supposed to have recently begun, and may have evidence for within 2 years from now.
Overall, I think the key principle we can take away from the history of the mock up is that the real carrier associated with it (whether it's CV-16 or 001A or 002) may not present a direct, 100% representative model of what the real carrier will look like. There are a few reasons for this:
1: the overall size of the facility -- the dimensions of the mock up's "hull" is relatively fixed -- it is after all, a building in of itself, and it was fairly well associated with CV-16's size originally. But in the future, as the Navy would eventually develop larger carriers, it seems very unlikely that the size of the building will be substantially modified in coming years merely to present an accurate depiction of the real size. Putting it another way, the size of the building, or the "hull," won't change, but it will likely still be used to represent a variety of carrier hull sizes that will likely eventually be larger than CV-16.
2: the fixed nature of certain structures. We've seen that they've been willing to change certain "superficial" aspects of the mock up, including the topside geometry of the island, as well as remove or at least modify the ski jump (as seen in Configuration 3). However, these structures are relatively "easy" to remove or change, as they do not involve changing the foundation or lower level arrangement of any large structure. Other structures may be less difficult to change -- specifically, I'm thinking about the island's overall geometry and its foundations. The relatively fixed nature of the island's general geometry and foundations probably will not undergo major modification in coming years, and will retain its CV-16 profile and surface area, however it would probably be incorrect to assume that any modifications on it will therefore be representative of whatever carrier's island design it is intending to simulate. More likely, is that the CV-16 style island will be used as the fixed "frame" upon which certain representative design features of successive islands will be integrated upon, to eventually become a sort of "frankenstein's island" with various differing design features. Another unspoken consequence is that the mock up's island will probably be as "large" as the CV-16 style island began, but won't be reduced in size in coming years as it will likely be used to test new design aspects of new carrier islands -- which will almost definitely become successively smaller than CV-16's.
antiterror13
Brigadier
thanks. sorry
I've been seeing some speculation lately on Chinese forums regarding the mockup at Wuhan. People generally seem to agree that the mockup will be reused to produce a layout resembling that of 002's, even if the size won't change. The top half of the island (on the mockup) may even be completely redesigned, though that point is still being hotly debated.
It's still too early to draw any concrete conclusions, but if we believe the big shrimps when they say that 002 is well into the steel-cutting stage, we may start seeing modules as early as next year. It's an optimistic guess, but it would make sense for the PLAN to start working on 002 at the stages they are now familiar with, from experience gained building 001A. I would not consider it rushing, but rather minimizing wastage of time.
Of course, there are still many unknowns at this stage regarding 002. If we do see modules next year, though, then by that point we'll know that they've settled on either the steam or EM catapult. There would be no modules, and by extension, no assembly if the design plans were not finalized. For the time being, however, 001A should remain the focus of our attention.
Launch this year?
Another question. The facility which is now building 001A was designed to build and maintain flattops. IIRC a bulkcarrier was built in it before it first docked Liaoning. ( Does anyone maintain a log of that dock? ). Will it now remain available to maintain flattops and perhaps also other large navy ships like LPD's and LHD's and not build carriers? In other words what will be the logistics of building and maintaining large Chinese naval vessels? Something to start a thread on in a few years time when there are several more of these.
The most important Reason why the Chinese felt the need to produce a full size, relatively faithful replica of the liaoning/001 design is simply caution against the possibility that the complete lack of experience in carrier construction/operation might throw up unexpected difficulties. With Liaoning operating, the need for the a faithful mock up will reduce. So I suspect the configuration of that mockup will become increasingly dictated by consideration of convenience in testing some specific thing, instead of overall faithfulness to any new carrier design.
Intrepid
Major
They have put a new American style PriFly on the island. And there is a crane for further construction work. Simply wait and you will see ...
Yes, I think that can definitely be a contributing reason.
However I also think that they built the original mock up more representative of CV-16, partly for aesthetic reasons as well.
Framing it another way, I think that if they were asked to build a clean sheet mock up facility for 002, I imagine they would build it relatively close to what the real thing would look like in the same way that the original mock up configuration was very close to CV-16.
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