PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Jeff Head said:

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This video shows the turntable pretty clearly in a couple of places. Aslo, stop the video when you see the J-15 completely on the elevator. Very, very little clearance there on the elevator between where the back tires sit on the outer portion of the elevator and the nose of the aircraft on the structural side.

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There must be only about half a meter to play with. Would be interesting parking the plane on the elevator in bad weather.

Gorthaur said:

There must be only about half a meter to play with. Would be interesting parking the plane on the elevator in bad weather.

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Bad weather and rough seas will be a hard thing to find in the duck pond...

Gorthaur said:

There must be only about half a meter to play with. Would be interesting parking the plane on the elevator in bad weather.

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On USN carriers you can actually parked two F14s side by side on the elevators. Granted the wings are in what is called an 'overswept' position.

Actually it is even more tight spot on the elevator than I first thought. I saw some pictures about 554 on elevator and even it's pitot-tube is bended down to make room. Interesting, I could say. In the old Chinese way, if you know what I mean...

Here's a very interesting post by "pierrotlefou" at the CDF ....

Back to topic. A certain Mr. Chen came by the office the other day. A bit elderly but otherwise quite fit, maybe in his late '60s. He's leader of a team representing Hailu Boiler Company, specifically their Zhangjiagang factory. They came to promote their company and offer their ORC (Organic Rankine Cycle) products. My company develops power plants in remote areas, so ORC sounds like a good idea.

Over lunch there was much probing and asking of questions about where the tech base for the Hailu ORC actually came from, because we've been through this $#!+ before and don't want to get involved with a Chinese company selling a product licensed from a Western company that they're not authorized to. Well, Mr. Chen surprised the heck out of all of us by claiming that he used to be a bigwig in 703 Institute and that Hailu is actually a contractor for PLAN with specialization in heat recycling technologies. Specifically, the company produces 5-20 kW Stirling Engines for use in subs. So I asked Mr. Chen which subs and he said 039. That got me curious and somehow we got into talking about PLAN. The gist of what Mr. Chen said was:

1. Hailu's Stirling Engines are not for motive power. They're just used to increase efficiency in 039 subs. This makes sense, I guess.

2. Hailu also produces the waste heat boilers forming the "S" part in a COGAS system for PLAN warships. That was news for me as I didn't know PLAN had COGAS in any of its existing warships, but admittedly my knowledge in this field is very shallow. Mr. Chen was very proud of this achievement because waste heat boilers also happen to be Hailu's flagship commercial product.

3. And then, during the after-lunch smoking session, he said rather off-the-cuff that Hailu is also producing elements of the propulsion systems for China's carriers. It took two tries to make sure that we meant the same thing when we say 航空母舰. He's quite nonchalant about it, which raised alarm bells in my head. His claim is that two are under construction, but in modules, and that Hailu will deliver their parts to Dalian and Qingdao.

Personally, I think this all sounds a tad suspicious, and I'd be very happy if someone could help background-check Mr. Chen for me. He kept using his Anglicized name, so I'm not sure what his real name is, but his initials are CXR. I myself did a background check of Hailu boilers and the people they sent. Hailu itself and the rest of the team are legit, but it's noticeable that Mr. Chen's namecard doesn't have a title on it and is entirely in English - despite the fact that he speaks very little English and atrociously at that.

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... to admit I can't say anything about the reliability of this post but it sounded intersting at least.

Deino

PLAN Qualifies 1st six pilotsa for carrier take-off & landing

This is an historic event for the PRC and PLAN, and I felt it should be documented seperately here on SD.

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The first six operational pilots have been qualified in take-offs and landings aboard the , for the Chinese Navy.

Short History:
The Liaoning is a Short Take-off, Barrier Assisted Recovery (STOBAR) carrier that the Chinese purchased from the Ukraine in the early 2000s when it was only partially complete. She was the sister ship of the Russian Kuznetsov aircraft carrier and was to be the 2nd in that class when the Soviet Union fell.

As a result, the Ukraine took possession of the partially completed carrier but themselves could not afford to finish her. She sat, docked, for several years until the Chinese showed interest in her. After purchasing her for $20 million, the Chinese towed her to Dalian Shipyards in China where they spent almost 10 years completely overhauling and refitting her. As a result, they , China's first.
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She was launched and conducted her first sea trials in August of 2011, and was then commissioned into the Perople's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) early in 2012.


First Pilot Qualification in Landing and Take-off:
After several short trials and training crusies, the Liaoning left her new home base at Shandong on the East China Sea in June 2013 and conducted her first operational pilot certifications. The aircraft the PLAN chose for its carrier strike aircraft is the J-15. This is an upgraded and modified version of the Russian SU-33. The Chinese received one prototype SU-33 from Ukraine. They also bought numerous SU-27s (which the SU-33 was developed from) from the Russians, and then license built even more of their own from kits supplied by Russia. Ultimately they developed their own indegenous version of the SU-27, the J-11B, which they now build completely by themselves. Between that experience, and the SU-33 prototype, the Chinese were able to develop their own new carrier strike aircraft which is a newer, more modern version of the Russian SU-33.

Three of these J-15 aircraft, serial numbers 552, 553, and 554, were taken aboard the Liaoning for these qualifications. The 552 and 553 had been used previously on numerpous occassions when the test pilots were qualifying the aircraft themselves for use on the Liaoning.


While at sea, the vessel conducted numerous training operations, including working with the aircraft in the hanger, and teaching the mainteance personnel how to get them there and how to manuever, park, and work on them while in the hanger spaces. Notice how large the J-15 fighers are in realtion to the elevators that carry them to the hanger, and how little clearance there is between the front of the aircaft where it is next to the hull, and its rear wheels and their position at the very outer edge of the elevator next to the safety netting.


The principle purpose for the cruise, and really, for the carrier itself, is to operate strike aircraft off of its deck. In order to do that, numerous pilots must be trained and qualified. The Chinese Navy had built and begaun using a Naval Aviation Training Facility[/b] on the north coast of the Bohai Sea, where they initially train pilots in preparation for having them graduate and then qualify on the carrier itself.


Six pilots who went through that training facility were taken aboard the Liaoning for the exercises in June 2013 in order to have them qualify on the aircraft for taking off and landing aboard the carrier. They performed numerous take-offs and landings each until they met the criteria established by the PLAN< and were then presented their qualification certificates onboard the Liaoning, on the flight deck.

Re: PLAN Qualifies 1st six pilots for carrier take-off & landing

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Summary:
As a result of this exercise and qualifiaction, the first six operational J-15 pilots are now qualified for take-offs and landings aboard the PLAN Liaoning, CV-16. There is a lot of work yet to do to train all the piloyts necessary to operate what is envisioned as two 12 aircraft squadrons of J-15s off of the Liaoning. In addition, take-offs and landings are only the intial qualifications necessary.

To become fully operational, all of the primary pilots, and any substitute pilots will have to be qualified in all of the following to ultimatley make them fully operational on the carrier:

- Rough ses state take-offs and landings.
- Inclement weather take-offs and landings.
- Take-offs and landings with ordinance.
- Forming air defense and attack groups for operations.
- Areial refueling operations at sea.
- Basic Night time take-offs and landings.
- Rough ses state take-offs and landings at night.
- Inclement weather take-offs and landings at night.
- Take-offs and landings with ordinance at night.
- Aerial refueling operations at sea at night.

Only after the entire air wing is trained in all of these operations, will the Liaoning be ready to take her place as a fully operational aircraft carrier on the world's oceans.

Scanning through pictures I also found one where 554 pitot was tilted up instead of down. I don't recall any picture where 552 or 553 have done either of those things. New feature for serial production planes to give more room on the elevator?

It seems awfully cramped anyway. Main landing gear is right on the edge and nose is about to be clipped of. Well, we see if they are going to return Liaoning back to the yards to enlarge the lifts. I doubt that since it was planned for SU-27 variants but Chinese variant is again little different from the original.

They're not physically different much at all and if you search for pics of su-33 on the kuznetsov you find they faced a similar situation. The flanker is jus so damned big.

Sorry Mr. Head, I mean no disrespect, but not knowing what the qualification standards are for both the pilots and the aircraft I must withold my enthusiasm. So far all I have seen are some PR or propaganda pieces for a half assed carrier and some aircraft that due to the lack of catapults will lack sufficient range and the ability to get airborne with a decent load of weapons as to be a negible threat to any serious competitor. Just my 30 years USN experience thinking out loud.