PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I do understand the rationale behind that logic but if the sub is inside the outer ring it is already at the hit distance.
Given the speed of a US carrier, and the anti-torpedo defenses, this is not necessarily true. Given those defenses for other carriers, it is also not necessarily true there either. In any case, finding a sub near the inner ring and prosecuting it is better than having it take a pot shot. So having those ASW assets is important...and the carrier can carry more than any escort.

I believe the PLAN will come to the same conclusions...and still carry a very good load of two strike fighter squadrons once they have them in enough numbers in any case.

My initial estimate of 12-18 was for the 1st Liaoning Ari Wing, when J-15 numbers are still low. Once they have sufficient numbers, I would expect the two squadrons with a total of 20-24 aircraft.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
I do understand the rationale behind that logic but if the sub is inside the outer ring it is already at the hit distance. Well, considering weapons. Depending mission I would cladly change few ASW helos to full fighter squadron. All these will be seen as we see enough fighters to choose the mix. Anyhow, speculation is fun, isn't it? :)

Did the air gunner get in trouble or the airboss tore him a new one? LOL
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
We can probably cut sharp sword out of that, PLAN is still decades away from even demonstrating capability for launching, flying, and recovering an unmanned vehicle as complex as that, let alone commissioning it. Just look at how slowly USN is taking UCLASS.
Z-15 may not eventuate as a project, because there's a good chance Z-20 will overtake it as the PLA's main helicopter.
Z-18/modernized Z-8 may see some service aboard a future carrier, but I imagine PLAN would end up using Z-20 for ASW, transport, anti surface and general utility duties so they have a common platform.
Ka-31 shouldn't be present, considering it's a rotor wing AEWC (and this carrier already supposedly has Y-7 anyway), and if it did have a rotor wing AEWC, wouldn't it be Z-8Y instead?

Also, a helicopter airwing may not be equivalent in number to a fighter airwing, it's probably better to describe it in terms of aircrafts onboard instead.

---

It's often been cited that the kuznetsov class can carry 24 fixed wing/Su-33 sized planes, and 26 ish helicopters, but that is obviously a full load, and is akin to how US supercarriers are always said to carry 90-100 aircraft, whereas in reality they often haul about 60-70 instead.

I don't expect liaoning to change from that, so chances are we may only end up with one squadron (12 J-15s) deployed on liaoning at peacetime, with a smaller complement of helicopters, or perhaps 3/4 of the ship's full capacity.

That rule of thumb would naturally go for any future PLAN CV or CVN as well.

China might wait out on the Sharp Sword just to see how successful the United States' program is, but I do think that the PLAN, especially with its smaller carriers, have thought about naval UCAVs to make up for their lack of fighters.

I do not see the Z-20 being able to make it onto the PLAN carrier program due to its size and also the fact that they already have already-developed designs in the form of the Z-8, Z-18, and the AC-313, which can be easily upgraded. China may invest in a SH-60 Seahawk for a future carrier, but they already have similar helicopters in testing phase and is unlikely to rely on an immature Z-20 program.

I think the PLAN might build a bit more J-15s than needed and have the rest deployed on land bases on a rotational basis. That way they can always have a surplus of fighters should serious crises arise.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Isn't it unsafe/dangerous to let these officers have insufficient sleep? What is the price of having twice as many officers for these jobs?

it is what it is Delft.. no different than in the civilian world where many physicians in hospitals having been up for 24 hrs straight are still treating patients.
I remember this SCPO who used to brag to everyone he sees that he only sleeps 4 hours a day. Tough as nails too. He even tried out for the SEALs but blew his ankle in BUDS.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Did the air gunner get in trouble or the airboss tore him a new one? LOL

Nope.. I found out later that the air boss did not like the air gunner because of something that happened on the beach.. dunno what. But you know how those guys are. They just usually leave it alone at work.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Nope.. I found out later that the air boss did not like the air gunner because of something that happened on the beach.. dunno what. But you know how those guys are. They just usually leave it alone at work.

Hmm...this seems to be a problem of who is above who, and who should be calling the shots in that situation.
 

delft

Brigadier
it is what it is Delft.. no different than in the civilian world where many physicians in hospitals having been up for 24 hrs straight are still treating patients.
I remember this SCPO who used to brag to everyone he sees that he only sleeps 4 hours a day. Tough as nails too. He even tried out for the SEALs but blew his ankle in BUDS.
A junior hospital doctor in England died after a weekend of working with too little sleep, some fifteen years ago. He was 28. You have to husband your manpower and don't loose people due to exhaustion. It will very seldom mean death but if they are not available when you really need them your in trouble. Besides military men can be killed and then you need to be able to replace them.
 

vesicles

Colonel
it is what it is Delft.. no different than in the civilian world where many physicians in hospitals having been up for 24 hrs straight are still treating patients.
I remember this SCPO who used to brag to everyone he sees that he only sleeps 4 hours a day. Tough as nails too. He even tried out for the SEALs but blew his ankle in BUDS.

FYI, a typical shift in a hospital is 72 hours. And residents routinely have to work up to 120 hours a week.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
You have to husband your manpower and don't loose people due to exhaustion. It will very seldom mean death but if they are not available when you really need them your in trouble. Besides military men can be killed and then you need to be able to replace them.
The US has been operating with air bosses and their assistants for decades, in war and in peace time, with very heavy tempos of operation.

They know how to provide the right shifting for those guys and maximize their experience, their availability, and their ability to apply the vast knowledge that they have built up without losing them to fatigue and sleep deprivation.

Where I work we have a group of operators who work in a central control center. They keep the place manned 24 x 7 with similar shifting as what you see on a carrier. They usually work four 12 hour shifts with spaced off periods so they can fill the operational schedule. There is one who is the Sr. Operator, and he could get called in at any time.

The Air Boss and the assistant air bosses work in a similar fashion, and have been doing so for decades. I am not aware of any serious, life threatening mishap that was due to air boss fatigue in my life time...popeye, kwaig, you guys worked directly with these guys for years, are you aware of any air boss fatigue leading to serious problems?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top