PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

vesicles said:

but it is their personal opinion that catapult system is ready. That is all they are saying at this point. I think even the PLAN is having the exact same worries as listed in the above posts, like whether the system can function as well in the real world, etc etc etc... That might be why the PLAN is taking its time and not installing it on any ships...

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There is a major and critical intervening piece that is missing in your statement and reasoning. Just like the Lakehurst test, we are trying to establish (to Jeff's point) to what extend planes are being launched off the system to even meet minimum standard of testing needed to determine next phase i.e. installation decision. If that step is not in place, it is perplexing to say the technology is ready for prime time.

Brumby said:

There is a major and critical intervening piece that is missing in your statement and reasoning. Just like the Lakehurst test, we are trying to establish (to Jeff's point) to what extend planes are being launched off the system to even meet minimum standard of testing needed to determine next phase i.e. installation decision. If that step is not in place, it is perplexing to say the technology is ready for prime time.

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Well, I agree with you. And I think many in the PLAN also agree with you. That is why the system is not on any ship yet. Like I said above, the designer believes it is ready. that is his opinion. It is not an official statement from the PLAN. We all know every little detail of the designing and testing. Just because they haven't published the data yet, it does not mean they dont have it. Like I said, for him to make such strong statement like that, he better have solid data to back himself up... to this day, We have absolutely no data on the J-20 on how stealthy it is or how maneuverable it is, etc... Yet, that does not mean they haven't tested it. Just because we don't know about it, it does not mean they don't have it...

Saying something...and actually doing it are different things (of course).

I want to see credible evidence of them actually launching aircraft from their test apparatus...even to see deadload launches.

They will HAVE TO DO THIS.

That will say a lot about their program. But that is also just a start.

They will have to launch many hundreds...even thousands of test launches until they get to a point that they are confidant the system will work on land before they ever take it to sea.

That type of testing can take well over five or more years. Believe me, I know.

The first deadload EMALS launches for the US on land at Lakehurst occurred in 2009 I believe. Folks, that is six years ago. They are scheduled to do deadload launches off of the Ford this summer I believe. Like I said...six years.

You should expect to see the same thing from the Chinese. So...I am waiting for documented evidence that they have launched anything off of the test apparatus.

Saying it is ready and showing it is ready are two completely different things.

Jeff Head said:

I want to see credible evidence of them actually launching aircraft from their test apparatus...even to see deadload launches.

They will HAVE TO DO THIS.

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Jeff,
A rudimentary question. Are modifications required to planes to enable EMAL launch testing? The US already has existing a vast inventory of catapult enabled planes. I don't believe China would have access to such ready resources. Just wondering whether it is a big deal or not.

vincent said:

The article you linked itself is rehashed from another. I think this is the original:

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He didn't say the catapult is an EMAL:

解放軍多位高級將領昨日接受本報獨家采訪時證實
...
電磁彈射器發明人，解放軍動力與電氣工程專家馬偉明少將也向本報指出，中國艦載機彈射起飛技術完全沒有問題，實踐多次也很順利，有信心運用到現實當中去，他強調，中國掌握的技術已經不輸美國，甚至更為先進

Multiple PLA general confirmed during yesterday's interviews by this paper
...
EMAL inventor, PLA power and electrical engineering specialist, lieutenant general(?), Ma Weiming said Chinese has mastered the naval catapult system. System testing is progressing smoothly. He is confident it is ready for deployment. He also said Chinese technology is not behind US', may even be more advance

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Interesting observation. Ma Weiming has also mentioned in stories about China's IEPS program.

As far as I know right now, EMALS is not requiring and modification over steam cat launches to the aircraft.

Of course...the equipment within the ship is completely different. But grabbing ahold of the aircraft is being accomplished in the same way.

This is an area that the Chinese will have to develop and test significantly to ensure that their aircraft are designed appropriately for the stress, and to ensure that they have the right apparatus to enable it to be safely launched.

Deadload tests will allow them to figure this out...apply what is learned to actual aircraft...and then test (perhaps deadload) the aircraft themselves before moving on to actual powered aircraft launches.

This takes time and a lot of iterations for the various aircraft.

I think as Bltizo said earlier, this at least provides official confirmation that China has an active EMALS program with seemingly functional test system in place. How far along they are in said testing and being able to operationalize the tech in a new carrier build is impossible to know, either way. But it's still significant news in confirming domestic work on the technology is fairly far along and something that will eventually be applied to newly constructed carriers in the future.

Jeff Head said:

As far as I know right now, EMALS is not requiring and modification over steam cat launches to the aircraft.

Of course...the equipment within the ship is completely different. But grabbing ahold of the aircraft is being accomplished in the same way.

This is an area that the Chinese will have to develop and test significantly to ensure that their aircraft are designed appropriately for the stress, and to ensure that they have the right apparatus to enable it to be safely launched.

Deadload tests will allow them to figure this out...apply what is learned to actual aircraft...and then test (perhaps deadload) the aircraft themselves before moving on to actual powered aircraft launches.

This takes time and a lot of iterations for the various aircraft.

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While I don't disagree with your point about actual installation, it's unlikely that they would try to get it perfect on land before installing the technology and bringing it to operation at sea. Because catapults in their entirety are a new technology for China they will have to make the initial phase of operation a part of the testing process.

Furthermore, this is one of those situations where they may be completing launches of both dead loads and actual planes long before we will find out about them, given how we don't always get pictures of every program.

Brumby said:

I am trying to reconcile your statement to his "He emphasized that China's catapult-assisted take-off technology in hand is no inferior to that of America, and is even more advanced."

The facts are , the US testing to-date is showing that under operating environment there are major test issues surfacing that goes beyond some lab type environment. In the absence of test details, I am having a problem differentiating between propaganda and reality.

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That is probably the least useful part of the article to look at and also the most resulting from personal opinion. Trying to reconcile it is a bit of a futile task, and I'd consider it in the vein as how every designer likes to portray their own product in the best way. It isn't meant to be a serious technical assessment obviously

EMAL inventor, PLA power and electrical engineering specialist, lieutenant general(?), Ma Weiming said Chinese has mastered the naval catapult system. System testing is progressing smoothly. He is confident it is ready for deployment. He also said Chinese technology is not behind US', may even be more advance

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It is obvious that China's first indigenous catapult will be EM if the system is as good as Ma said.
It is more economical to go with the more modern system than to spend the same amount of time contending to live with an obsolete system.