PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

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no_name

Colonel
No visible ski ramp...

I got the opposite impression, as the bow looks higher than it should from that angle.

But I think only the first pic is an indication of progress to date, that the other two have been a bit more 'artistic'?

Because if that thing is outside, everyone should have known by now.
 

Franklin

Captain
Another example of just how seriously China takes carrier ops. They are picking the best candidates from high schools to become carrier pilots. They are selecting them like they select astronauts (taikonauts) and top athletes. The Israeli's have a similar program for their air force pilots too. There is an interesting bit of history about WWII and compares the Japanese and American training programs. How does the current US carrier pilot training program look like in terms of years in the academy and hours flown ?

Attrition: China Takes The High Road to Carrier Operations

China is developing a carrier pilot recruiting and training program based on what they have used for astronauts. This includes searching for candidates among high school students, so that suitable candidates found there can begin their lengthy (over six years) training program as soon as they graduate from high school. China has long used this screening approach to find and quickly develop exceptional athletes or scientists. When found these teenagers (or younger for some types of athletes) are put into an intensive training program carried out by experienced instructors.

In the case of carrier pilots China does not have any experienced instructors. This was also the case when they began selecting and training astronauts over a decade ago. The astronaut program worked quite well, largely because it had the pick of the best people in terms of trainees and training staff. Since carrier flight deck accidents can be very expensive, China decided to take the high road when it came to selecting and training its first generation of carrier pilots.

It’s unknown if the Chinese are also following the pre-World War II Japanese Navy approach to carrier pilot selection in training. The Japanese entered World War II using a system similar to what China is using now. In 1941, a Japanese pilot trainee needed 700 hours of flight time to qualify as a full-fledged pilot in the Imperial Navy, while his American counterpart needed only 305 hours to serve on U.S. carriers. About half of the active duty pilots in the U.S. Navy in late 1941 had between 300 and 600 hours flying experience, a quarter between 600 and 1000 hours, and the balance more than 1000 hours. Most of these flight hours had been acquired in the late 1930s. Thus at the beginning of the war nearly 75 percent of the U.S. Navy's pilots had fewer flying hours than did the least qualified of the Japanese Navy's pilots.

On the down side, the Japanese pilot training effort was so rigorous that only about 100 men a year were being graduated from a program that required 4-5 years. In 1940 it was proposed that the pilot training program be made shorter, less rigorous, and more productive, in order to build up the pool of available pilots to about 15,000. This was rejected. Japan believed it could not win a long war and needed the best pilots possible in order to win a short one.

Naturally, once the war began the Imperial Navy started losing pilots faster than they could be replaced. For example, the 29 pilots lost at Pearl Harbor represented more than a quarter of the annual crop. The battles of the next year led to the loss of hundreds of superb pilots. This finally forced the Japanese to reform their pilot training programs. Time to train a pilot, and hours in the air spiraled downward. By 1945 trainee pilots were being certified fit for combat duty with less than four months training. In contrast, the U.S. Navy was actually increasing its flight time, while keeping pilot training programs to about 18 months. In 1943, the U.S. Navy increased flight hours for trainees to 500, while Japan cut its hours to 500. In 1944, the U.S. hours went up to 525, while Japan cut it to 275 hour. In 1945, a shortage of fuel had Japanese trainee pilots flying on 90 hours before entering combat. In the air, this produced lopsided American victories, with ten or more Japanese aircraft being lost for each U.S. one.

This experience was remembered after World War II, and reinforced when, in campaign after campaign, the side with the fewer training hours per pilot suffered the greatest losses. Now, unable to afford fuel for training, flight simulators are being used more frequently. These devices are becoming cheaper and more realistic, but research (mostly from training exercises, not actual combat) shows that each hour of simulator time is worth only about half or two-thirds of an hour in the air.

China is doing the smart thing here. Its first generation carrier pilots will be working with new carriers and carrier crews that have little experience operating a carrier. So having the best possible pilots makes it safer and easier on the ship and flight deck crews. The navy also appears to be selecting the best officers, chiefs and sailors for duty on the first carrier. All this minimizes risk, maximizes success and is more likely to provide first generation carrier personnel who know what they are doing and able to pass that on to subsequent generations.

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Blitzo

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Strategypage isn't exactly the best source around.

However this is one of its better articles vis a vis PLA, although then again it doesn't make that many statements about the PLA in the first place.
 

bd popeye

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Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Adm. Jonathan Greenert recently visited CV-16..here's a excerpt from an article published by the US Navy about his visit. Follow the link for the full story....sorry,...no photos of the visit aboard CV-16.:(

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Release Date: 7/21/2014

From Chief of Naval Operations Public Affairs

BEIJING (NNS) -- Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Adm. Jonathan Greenert departed the People's Republic of China (PRC) Friday after a successful four-day counterpart visit with military leaders, fleet units and leaders of the State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

..........

Greenert even held an all-hands call as he would with his own Sailors but with aircraft carrier Liaoning crewmembers, who were eager to talk with the U.S. service chief about a number of topics ranging from his impressions of their first aircraft carrier, to port visits and chow, to his views on women in service. During the all-hands call, a female PLAN officer told Greenert she was inspired by the recent news of Adm. Michelle Howard's four-star promotion to vice chief of naval operations and that it gave her hope to aspire to great heights in her own organization.

When asked by a Liaoning crewmember during the all hands about how the U.S. and Chinese Navy can cooperate, Greenert highlighted that common interests and potential cooperation can take place in areas such as disaster relief, search and rescue, counter piracy, and counter smuggling operations. Greenert also emphasized that both navies have to be responsible examples for others in the world and that the two navies have to work together to gain a better understanding of each other.

The all-hands call proved to be equally valuable to the Liaoning crew and Greenert in gaining a better understanding of each other as Sailors and as people.
 

Jeff Head

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Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Adm. Jonathan Greenert recently visited CV-16..here's a excerpt from an article published by the US Navy about his visit. Follow the link for the full story.:(

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I think this visit to the Liaoning by CNO Greenert, must be a return favor visit for the PLAN'S CNO visit last year to the Carl Vinson.

CNO Greenert hosted the PLAN Chief of Operations, Admiral Wu Shengli on the USS Carlk Vinson, CVN-70, in September 2013.


US-PLAN-CNOS-CVN70-2013-0909.jpg


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Naval Today said:
Adm. Wu Shengli, commander in chief of the People’s Liberation Army – Navy [PLA(N)], visited the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) accompanied by U.S. Navy Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Adm. Jonathan W. Greenert on Sept. 9, 2013.

In his first visit to the United States since 2007, Shengli, escorted by Greenert, was rendered side honors by Carl Vinson Sailors before a tour of the warship led by its Commanding Officer Capt. Kent D. Whalen.

“It is a rare privilege to welcome aboard such distinguished guests,” Whalen said. “To have not only our own chief of naval operations, but to have Adm. Wu from the People’s Republic of China as well is truly an honor. I’m pleased and excited some of our terrific Sailors had the opportunity to engage with them both.”

The delegation toured the waist launch control room, combat direction center (CDC), arresting gear operations room, crew’s mess and medical wards, where junior and senior enlisted Sailors demonstrated their work center’s professionalism, high-quality standards and the critical functions they perform every day.

“It filled me with a great sense of pride to see our Sailors intelligently and passionately present their work centers and explain their work to both CNOs,” said Carl Vinson’s Command Master Chief (CMDCM) Jeffrey Pickering. “It really spoke to Carl Vinson’s high standard of excellence.”

Wu and Greenert also met with chief petty officers to discuss the important role senior enlisted perform in the U.S. Navy. Following a question-and-answer session on the differences and similarities between the two navies, Capt. Whalen hosted a lunch in the wardroom in honor of Wu.

The diplomatic visit was one of many to U.S. Navy and Marine Corps commands in the San Diego area and supports the goals of both military leaders to establish clear paths of communication, encourage transparency and trust, mitigate risks, and focus multilateral cooperative efforts to address common regional and global security challenges.

The visit is also especially important as PLA(N) accepted an invitation to participate in the Rim of the Pacific exercise (RIMPAC) 2014 earlier this year. The world’s largest international maritime exercise, RIMPAC is held every two years and will include more than 20 nations in 2014.
 

Jeff Head

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More on the US NAvy CNO's visit to the Liaoning. This from the New York Times:

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PLAN-HONOR-USCNO-2014-07.jpg


New York Times said:
The United States chief of naval operations, Adm. Jonathan W. Greenert, visited China’s aircraft carrier last week, a symbolic step in the campaign the Pentagon is waging with Beijing for greater transparency even as the two navies become greater rivals.

The United States Navy had kept score: In the past year, two senior Chinese military commanders had been invited on board American aircraft carriers, but the Chinese had yet to reciprocate. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel toured the Liaoning, China’s sole carrier, earlier this year, the first foreign official to do so. But no invitation had been issued to an American Navy commander.

Admiral Greenert, who was in China for a four-day visit and is a proponent of talking with the Chinese as much as possible, boarded the Liaoning in the northeast port city of Dalian, accompanied by China’s naval chief, Adm. Wu Shengli. After the brief visit to the carrier, Admiral Greenert, escorted by Admiral Wu, sailed from Dalian on a Chinese frigate to watch naval exercises, said Capt. Danny Hernandez, a spokesman for Admiral Greenert.

For reasons that are not clear, but may be linked to the downturn in relations between Washington and Beijing over China’s assertion of what it considers its territorial rights in nearby seas, Admiral Greenert’s tour of the carrier was not reported in the Chinese news media. (Chinese reporters were dockside and watched Admiral Greenert and Admiral Wu board the carrier.)

While Admiral Greenert was spending time with Admiral Wu in China, the Chinese Navy was participating for the first time in the 22-nation, United States-led exercises off the Hawaiian Islands that started on June 26 and run to Aug. 1.

The Obama administration invited China to join the exercises, known as Rim of the Pacific, or Rimpac, despite opposition by congressional critics who argue that China’s actions against United States allies — Japan in the East China Sea and the Philippines in the South China Sea — should not be rewarded with a role in the world’s biggest multinational navy exercise.

The Obama administration invited China to join the exercises, known as Rim of the Pacific, or Rimpac, despite opposition by congressional critics who argue that China’s actions against United States allies — Japan in the East China Sea and the Philippines in the South China Sea — should not be rewarded with a role in the world’s biggest multinational navy exercise.

So far, the exercises appear to have gone smoothly, in part because months of planning were devoted to avoiding strategic and diplomatic blunders. China sent four ships — a destroyer, a frigate, a state-of-the-art hospital ship called the Peace Ark and a supply vessel.

The Chinese invited American reporters to visit their destroyer, the Haikou, and Jeanette Steele of The San Diego Union-Tribune interviewed Chinese officers and sailors about their careers and hopes.

The merits of engaging the Chinese military by including it in the Rimpac exercises is what the United States Navy wants to publicly emphasize as defense officials wrestle with the hard questions of how to deal with China’s growing capacities as a strategic competitor.

Admiral Greenert, who has met with Admiral Wu three times in the past year and favors engagement with the Chinese military, has also warned about telling the Chinese too much about American plans.
 

weig2000

Captain
Amid all the tension and rhetoric, it is comforting to know there are people from both sides pushing for closer military ties.

From Wall Street Journal:
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DALIAN, China—China is seeking greater access to U.S. aircraft carriers and guidance on how to operate its own first carrier, the Liaoning, testing the limits of a newly cooperative military relationship the two sides have tried to cultivate in the past year.

The latest Chinese request came last week when U.S. Adm. Jonathan. W. Greenert, chief of naval operations, visited China to explore new areas of cooperation, despite recent maritime tensions and the presence of an uninvited Chinese spy ship at naval drills off Hawaii.

China's navy chief, Adm. Wu Shengli, suggested the U.S. should bring the USS George Washington, an aircraft carrier based in Japan, to a mainland Chinese port and allow the crew of the Liaoning to take a tour, according to Adm. Greenert.

"Admiral Wu wants to work on that," Adm. Greenert told The Wall Street Journal in an interview at the end of his trip, which included a tour of the Liaoning.

"He'd like his crew to get a tour of the George Washington and have the George Washington crew, a gaggle of them, come to the Liaoning," he said. "I'm receptive to that idea."

A U.S. carrier's visit to China—possibly Shanghai—could happen within a year if Adm. Wu formally proposed it and won support for the idea from policy makers on both sides, he said.

China's defense ministry didn't respond to a request for comment.

The carrier discussions highlight a counterintuitive trend in China-U.S. relations: Military ties are improving, especially between the navies, even as China seeks to enforce maritime claims in Asia that are contested by neighbors, including U.S. allies.

Adm. Greenert has met his Chinese counterpart three times in the past year and will meet him again in September—a reflection, he says, of the commitment to improve military ties made at last year's summit between Presidents Xi Jinping and Barack Obama.

But the discussions over the carriers also raise questions for both sides about how far they will go in allowing each other access to sensitive technology, and whether such exchanges will in fact reduce tensions at sea.

This month, China sent an uninvited spy ship to monitor continuing U.S.-led naval drills off Hawaii, even though the Chinese navy is participating in the exercises for the first time in another attempt by the U.S. to improve ties.

During the drills, a delegation of Chinese navy officers visited another U.S. carrier, the USS Ronald Reagan, while at sea, according to a spokesman for the Pacific Fleet.

U.S. officials say the Chinese spy ship is operating legally in international waters, much as U.S. spy ships do around China's coast. Adm. Greenert declined to comment on the Chinese spy ship's activity, saying it was an operational matter.

China's carrier, launched in 2012 and based on a hull bought from Ukraine, is particularly sensitive as carriers are predominantly offensive platforms, and U.S. officials say the Liaoning could be used to enforce Chinese territorial claims. The Pentagon also says China will likely build multiple indigenous carriers over the next decade.

Adm. Greenert said Adm. Wu earlier suggested organizing meetings between Chinese and U.S. carrier aviation personnel to discuss "details on maintenance and tactics."

"That was deemed to be inappropriate by our folks, our policy folks, so we set that aside," Adm. Greenert said.

One obstacle is U.S. law, which forbids any cooperation with the Chinese military—including even some verbal exchanges—that might allow China to gain U.S. military know-how. And some in the U.S. defense establishment argue that China shouldn't be rewarded for its recent assertive behavior.

Adm. Greenert sees the issue differently, arguing that his priority is to build trust and try to shape the behavior of a Chinese navy that will inevitably grow stronger, rather than to raise repeated protests over individual incidents.

"If all we do is state that over and over, day in day out, the reality is our ships are operating in the same area and we have to figure out how to manage our way through this," he said.

He said he didn't raise last week the issue of a Chinese oil rig recently deployed in waters claimed by Vietnam in the South China Sea, or other Chinese activities in disputed waters.

"I didn't go into that with an agenda item because I didn't want to get bogged down in a bunch of platitudes or for-the-record statements because we only had so much time," he said, adding that U.S. officials had raised those issues in separate meetings.

"I wanted to get a clarity of purpose. Where are you on this, Admiral Wu? Are you ready to move forward? And then, as his guest, see what I could see that he was willing to show me on the platforms."

Adm. Greenert said he tried to build on eight proposals for cooperation made by Adm. Wu last September. One was China's attending the naval drills off Hawaii. Another was implementing a code for unplanned encounters at sea, or CUES, signed by 21 Pacific naval powers in April.

Some Chinese officials have suggested the code didn't apply in disputed waters around China's coast, but Adm. Greenert said Adm. Wu had committed last week to observing CUES throughout the South China Sea.

Adm. Greenert said he had seen no reports of harassment or unprofessional behavior in encounters between U.S. and Chinese ships since April. "We're talking more. They're speaking English," he said. "It's a civil tone—it's good."

He also said he met for the first time last week with China's State Oceanic Administration, which oversees the coast guard, and discussed whether they, too, could observe elements of CUES.

"They were open to the concept and saw the value in pursuing it," he said of the officials overseeing the coast guard, which has often been used to enforce China's maritime claims.

Other areas of proposed cooperation include sending officers to each other's naval academies and war colleges, and arranging simple joint exercises at short notice in the Gulf of Aden, the Mediterranean, the South China Sea and the East China Sea, he said.

Adm. Greenert said China was reciprocating in terms of access to ships, having shown him the Liaoning, a frigate, a missile patrol boat and a Type 039B diesel-powered submarine last week.

He said allowing the Liaoning crew to tour a U.S. carrier wasn't "revolutionary," as the U.S. had taken Chinese military personnel on board its carriers for several years.

Following his tour of the Liaoning, he said he met about 180 of its crew, who questioned him about how to certify carriers as seaworthy after maintenance, and how to lead a strong naval aviation wing.

Adm. Greenert said he asked the crew which U.S. ports they would like the Liaoning to visit, and some said Hawaii. "When that carrier's ready to go out and underway, visiting Pearl Harbor may be a natural progression," he said.

He conceded, however, that some of his proposals might meet opposition in Washington, and much depended on China's actions in the next few months.

"If you and I sit down a year from now and you say how's it going, and I've got a bunch of excuses why none of this is going anywhere, then I'd say somebody's been dragging their feet here," he said.

"I think we'll understand the genuinity of each other as we're looking forward. I should be upfront though: We don't make all the rules, so when I go forward with wanting to do this, we'll see what the policy folks want."
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Amid all the tension and rhetoric, it is comforting to know there are people from both sides pushing for closer military ties.

From Wall Street Journal:
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ALIAN, China—China is seeking greater access to U.S. aircraft carriers and guidance on how to operate its own first carrier, the Liaoning, testing the limits of a newly cooperative military relationship the two sides have tried to cultivate in the past year.

The latest Chinese request came last week when U.S. Adm. Jonathan. W. Greenert, chief of naval operations, visited China to explore new areas of cooperation, despite recent maritime tensions and the presence of an uninvited Chinese spy ship at naval drills off Hawaii.
Not too sure about training our potential enemy in carrier operation, it's probably better to let them discover the art on their own.
 

tphuang

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Not too sure about training our potential enemy in carrier operation, it's probably better to let them discover the art on their own.

I think we would not be giving US naval commanders enough credit if we think they will give their Chinese counterpart meaningful help in discovering carrier operation.
 

Deino

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Are there any additional info regarding the authenticity of these sketches available ??? :confused::confused:
 
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