PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

If CV 17 includes cats, then it wouldn't have sky ramp because that's not needed, plus it takes away real estate for spotting aircrafts.

Blackstone said:

If CV 17 includes cats, then it wouldn't have sky ramp because that's not needed, plus it takes away real estate for spotting aircrafts.

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CV-17 may or may not have cats on the angled deck. But having a cat and ramp combo is not that strange of an idea. They need to launch J-15's under the current configuration. And that plane is designed for ski jump ops. Having cats means that the new ship can also handle fixed wing AEW and transport planes making the ship much more potent. And spotting planes on the angled deck only happens when air ops have come to an end for the day. You don't spot planes on the angled deck when air ops are on going! So it doesn't really matter as far as spotting planes is concerned. The ski ramp is for interoperability (planes crossing decks) with the Liaoning and the cats is for interoperability with the future CATOBAR carriers. That is at least my logic. Rather the PLAN will go down that road remains to be seen.

Bltizo said:

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No PARs on this carrier? Or is there some presumption they will be much smaller than the current generation on the 052Ds?

Franklin said:

CV-17 may or may not have cats on the angled deck. But having a cat and ramp combo is not that strange of an idea. They need to launch J-15's under the current configuration. And that plane is designed for ski jump ops. Having cats means that the new ship can also handle fixed wing AEW and transport planes making the ship much more potent. And spotting planes on the angled deck only happens when air ops have come to an end for the day. You don't spot planes on the angled deck when air ops are on going! So it doesn't really matter as far as spotting planes is concerned. The ski ramp is for interoperability (planes crossing decks) with the Liaoning and the cats is for interoperability with the future CATOBAR carriers. That is at least my logic. Rather the PLAN will go down that road remains to be seen.

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Look at Joshuatree's pic above to see bow real estate for spotting.

Bltizo said:

Via CDF... these were supposedly taken at the Zhongshan Navy Exhibition, the same place where the 032 SSB model and the trimaran MSA cutter were taken, so it's possible that this carrier model is very authentic.

Elements of this model were present on some CGIs from a while ago, so it is very possible that the original artist of the CGIs (who is not uncredible) had seen elements of the final carrier design.

Of course, I'm referring to the island specifically, but things like the elevators, catapult positioning, etc are also indicative

Whatever the case, this model definitely shows a supercarrier in the nimitz/ford ballpark. Is it legit?

Well... I'd cautiously veer on the side of yes.

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Legit in what sense?

Is it a fairly nice depiction of that the chinese could do? Yes.

Is it the picture of something the Chinese are building right now...or an official model of that they plan to build in the near future? No, I don't think so.

As I have stated in the past...I do not expect their next two carriers to be anything like this.

When they do build a CATOBAR, I also think it will not be this ambitious. We shall see...but I expect something more in the 80,000-85,000 ton range. Probably at first conventionally powered.

I expect to see two Liaoning improvements. The first being a virtual model of the Liaoning with a better flight deck layout, perhaps a smaller island, and a better/larger hanger. I expect the second "may" add waist cats.

After that, I expect the PLAN to go for CATOBAR...but probably not on the scale shown in that model. As I say. something more the size of the Forrestal, and the PLAN will try and come up with a class that they can then standardize on for the next 40 years or so.

Something more like this:

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But that is purely my opinion...nothing more.

I pegged the model "CV-18" to be a 80,000 ton design, actually.

Jeff Head said:

Legit in what sense?

Is it a fairly nice depiction of that the chinese could do? Yes.

Is it the picture of something the Chinese are building right now...or an official model of that they plan to build in the near future? No, I don't think so.

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Well, legit as in the latter.

I wouldn't place much weight to it as well, but it's only its appearance at a supposed credible environment which gives me pause.

It's definitely not impossible for the PLAN to build a Liaoning follow on and then a CVN.

The PLAN could have decided to skip the second of the Liaoning derivatives for whatever reason.

Bltizo said:

Well, legit as in the latter.

I wouldn't place much weight to it as well, but it's only its appearance at a supposed credible environment which gives me pause.

It's definitely not impossible for the PLAN to build a Liaoning follow on and then a CVN.

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With all the limitations of ski ramps, it makes sense for China to build a smaller CV 40-50k ton, but with cats.

Blackstone said:

With all the limitations of ski ramps, it makes sense for China to build a smaller CV 40-50k ton, but with cats.

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Quite frankly there are all manner of arguments for why China should or shouldn't go for a smaller carrier first or directly to a larger one.

However it would be nice to have a true fixed wing AEWC capability which CATOBAR carriers can provide. But fighter MTOW from ski jumps is still a controversial issue.