asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Which is the primary and which is the secondary launch position?
PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
- Thread starter bd popeye
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The forward station is the primary, the aft is the secondary as you have to "work around" every thing that happens aft, trapping aircraft, refueling, ordinance. So the secondary is for mission specific load outs that require the extra length to accelerate to minimum fly away airspeed. Note the poster states that with the heavier load-outs, the aircraft is unable to fly-away from the carrier prior to accelerating to a higher airspeed in "ground effect". Also note that on the video above that escobar posted, coming off the ramp the aircraft is at a higher angle of attack. At lower airspeed and altitude to reduce the angle of attack is to sink, (note if you have a flight sim, you will get an automated voice repeating "don't sink" , don't sink",) so while this pitch angle is very draggy, at heavier weights you will be "critical" in regard to pitch and airspeed...
Now, if your airspeed begins to "decay", your are in full-burner, you must allow the aircraft to sink toward the water by slightly reducing pitch, in older vids you will note aircraft that lightly sink toward the water after coming off the deck, as the airspeed comes up to best angle of climb, you will lightly pitch the aircraft nose up to maintain "best angle" until all obstacles are cleared, then you allow it to accelerate to "best rate of climb". That's why most missions will be flown with the minimum fuel and load-out to accomplish that specific mission+the required fuel reserve for contingencies, whether they be weather or traffic, finding the ship etc, etc.
Well, look at it this way, at least the deck is washed clean right? No more deck scrubbing.
From what I know, it means salt water on deck and that means MORE scrubbing to get them ship-shaped. Fun for the whole family.
Do we need ANOTHER blinding flash of revelation that the Liaoning doesn't have a cat? Seriously? On page 93 of the PLAN carrier thread?
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I don't know, from my reading, they were referring to the forward position as 'secondary', what with the mention of 195M (which I read as 195 meter, as in take off run) and the lighter max load quoted.
If the secondary is the aft launch position, and they only managed to take off with 7.5t internal fuel and 10 AAMs (less than 3t based on the 3t weight given for 12 AAMs), how did they manage to take off with 9t internal fuel and 5t ordinance 2-3 times?
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Ah ok yeah I see it now, so the load from the primary is less than that for the secondary, the secondary allows for a longer run so guess the lift is much more
So there any info on load outs from each position so for example if they launch from secondary what's the mission profile and also from the primary
This is where buddy refueling is good it would allow for heavier take off weights
I guess PLAN has a lot of work to do on gathering data to get all the parameters for each take off position for each type of mission
I wonder what is the maximum aircraft the Liaoning launch and recover in a given time span
Which is why we also are still probably seeing the same test J15 on the Liaoning because they are the aircraft that are feeding back all the data that is being collected which is being analysed and further experiments are being devised to get a full spectrum off mission profiles
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Well, I don't pretend to read Chinese or Russian, but I do know that the forward launch positions are primary in normal ops on the Kuznetsov if they have any intentions of any con-current operations going on in addition to launching aircraft. If you are only operation two or three aircraft, you are now where near any kind of "operational" status, in addition, if launching aircraft is taking up the whole deck there is no "safe zone" to preflight, fuel, arm, or "recover" aircraft.
In addition, lots of folks are far to concerned about the Flankers Fuel and Combat Load-out, they are likely practicing "CAP", as that is the only real concern operationally at present, no one is going to be conducting any airstrikes, any time soon. That is very unlikely to change once they do have 12 to 24 J-15s aboard, three to five years down the road, that may change, but for now, NYET.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Can J-15 really carry 14 tons of load and you are saying 9 tons of that is internal fuel? I would think that it's 9 tons with a drop tank?
Did someone not a while ago a graph of the different launch positions and take off weights if someone can find that it would be good
Btw the two parallel launch positions infront of the island I measured to be 115m with the secondary launch position to be 205m I measured the full carrier lengthy as 305m which is known length of the carrier so I think they might be correct anyone got official figures?
From the secondary position the fighter has extra 90m of runway, I am guessing that full load of 14 tons is only capable from the secondary launch position and not the primary launch positions
Primary launch 115m
Secondary launch 205m
Full carrier length 305m
Can J-15 really carry 14 tons of load and you are saying 9 tons of that is internal fuel? I would think that it's 9 tons with a drop tank?
Did someone not a while ago a graph of the different launch positions and take off weights if someone can find that it would be good
Btw the two parallel launch positions infront of the island I measured to be 115m with the secondary launch position to be 205m I measured the full carrier lengthy as 305m which is known length of the carrier so I think they might be correct anyone got official figures?
From the secondary position the fighter has extra 90m of runway, I am guessing that full load of 14 tons is only capable from the secondary launch position and not the primary launch positions
Primary launch 115m
Secondary launch 205m
Full carrier length 305m
I think Su-33 can carry 9 tons of internal fuel. And internal fuel usually isn't included in payload.
As for the graph and summary you're talking about, I'll link it below.
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/nav...-programme-news-views-44-6479.html#post247737
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Nice one! It says from 110m primary position with 25 knot headwind MTOW is 32 tons and 0 wind its 28 tons
However the secondary 195m position is not compete, what is the MTOW with head wind of 25 knots and what is MTOW in no wind from this longer position? I reckon they could do 32 tons from this position without head wind and maybe more if there is head wind, but what is the maximum take off weight for J-15?
Btw 9 ton internal fuel load doesn't seem right
I can't read Chinese!
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