PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I have a general question. So if every battle CVG are custom design to each countries needs today, will there ever be a one size fits all super carrier in the future? That included emal, laser CIWS, rail guns, anti-torpedo systems and advance anti-ballistic missile systems ALL in one single carrier vessel with no escorts what so ever. Yes I know it will be huge and expensive but is it technically possible?

Battlestar Galactica? ;)
the carrier is a base. Its a platform for deploying embarked craft. So your battlestar type carrier. A one ship to rule them all. Is IMHO flawed and unlikely.
one) the best defense is a good offence. Look at the way a carrier or in fact any naval formation employ there escorts. Its not bunched up its over a huge area. This is because they intend to control that area. ASW assets keep the subs well away from the formations flag, aircraft and antiaircraft keep the skies clear and open. A single shih can't project that kind of power yet. Perhaps drone subs, ships and aircraft in the future but even with the tech you mention I don't see it.
two) if the ship could control a wide enough area of the sea to allow zero escorts, she could not power project. All her assets would be defense. She would not be able to operate away from her hull.
 

montyp165

Senior Member
Let's compare a future Chinese carrier with CDG.
CDG is about 40k. Does anyone has information about the weight of the nuclear installation and its shielding?
CDG carries according to Wikipedia 28 to 40 aircraft.
Around 2030 a Chinese carrier can probably use molten salt reactors. While a PWR has an thermal efficiency of about a third, the molten salt reactor is likely to have an efficiency of about half. That means that for the same net power the thermal power of the PWR will be twice that of the molten salt reactor. The energy produced by the split of a U233 will be about the same as for a U235 and the average number of neutrons produced will also be about 2,5 for both. One of those neutrons is absorbed by the next atom to be split and in the molten salt reactor one neutron must be absorbed in the Thorium mantel. Thus the number of neutrons to be absorbed by the shielding in the PWR will be six times that in the molten salt reactor and the same will be true for the weight of the shielding. The molten salt reactor itself will also be much smaller and lighter so we can expect a weight saving of hundreds of tons.
CDG carries 0.7 to 1 aircraft per 1000 tons, just as USN carriers. A somewhat larger Chinese carrier of 60k might well be able to carry as many aircraft, including AEW and ASW aircraft, 42 to 60 with more ease than CDG carries 28 to 40.

My hunch is that all Chinese carriers after the Liaoning will be no less than 65000 tons, given how size is especially critical for carrier efficiency and the Kuzenetsov size is still too small for the optimal configuration that the PLAN is striving for.

[EDIT: Already pointed out by previous posters, oops]
 

kroko

Senior Member
My hunch is that all Chinese carriers after the Liaoning will be no less than 65000 tons, given how size is especially critical for carrier efficiency and the Kuzenetsov size is still too small for the optimal configuration that the PLAN is striving for.

The J-15 is a big plane. I doubt that a carrier smaller than liaoning can really deploy them efectively. China needs big carriers for it.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I have a general question. So if every battle CVG are custom design to each countries needs today, will there ever be a one size fits all super carrier in the future? That included emal, laser CIWS, rail guns, anti-torpedo systems and advance anti-ballistic missile systems ALL in one single carrier vessel with no escorts what so ever. Yes I know it will be huge and expensive but is it technically possible?
First, my friend, until and unless there were a single stable government for the entire earth...which I do not see happening any time in the next many generations (at least in my faith until Christ returns at which time we will no longer need any instruments of war), there is no way there will ever be a single class carrier for the whole earth.

The closest we have to that is the Nimitz class...and now the Ford Class for the US. They represent over 90% of the nuclear carriers, and 100% of the Super-carriers on earth and the ten nimitz are a single class, and the Ford's which replace them will alao be one class.

Second...no, They will not go alone.

Such a huge, expensive, and critical assett will never go to sea (or later, IMHO, to the stars) alone. With the technology available, there will always be people or nations designing smaller, heavily armed combatants, who cannot afford n investment like that, who will seek to neutralize it should it ever be used against them.

Lasers, rail guns, nuclear missiles, etc. all can be mounted on smaller platforms. Newer varities of torpedoes and other sub-surface weapons. A large capitol vessel like a carrier will always need smaller, less expensive, well armed escorts to stand between the large vessel and those threats. I just do not see that changing in the near or long term future. It is the nature of technology.

Now, some might say that in some far off future where all sorts of sci-fi type plasma, ionic, and powerful force fields are possible to protect a vessel, that must be created by the huge power sources only available on large vessels, that this may end. But I say to that...not so fast. Yes, it may take the large power sources only available on such large vessels to create the shields, but that does not necessarily mean that a weapon, that can break through the shield cannot be launched from a vessel that does not have that size. With nuclear weapons or, one day, more exotic weapons like anti-matter weapons, gravitonic weapons, or even space warping or bending weapons that create temporary black holes, singularities, or other quantum events, there will still be the possibility that a weapon can be launched that could defeat the capitol vessel. So,smaller vessels will still be needed to ride shotgun, protect and defend the larger vessels.

Anyhow, that's how I see it.
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
Battlestar Galactica? ;)
the carrier is a base. Its a platform for deploying embarked craft. So your battlestar type carrier. A one ship to rule them all. Is IMHO flawed and unlikely.
one) the best defense is a good offence. Look at the way a carrier or in fact any naval formation employ there escorts. Its not bunched up its over a huge area. This is because they intend to control that area. ASW assets keep the subs well away from the formations flag, aircraft and antiaircraft keep the skies clear and open. A single shih can't project that kind of power yet. Perhaps drone subs, ships and aircraft in the future but even with the tech you mention I don't see it.
two) if the ship could control a wide enough area of the sea to allow zero escorts, she could not power project. All her assets would be defense. She would not be able to operate away from her hull.

First, my friend, until and unless there were a single stable government for the entire earth...which I do not see happening any time in the next many generations (at least in my faith until Christ returns at which time we will no longer need any instruments of war), there is no way there will ever be a single class carrier for the whole earth.

The closest we have to that is the Nimitz class...and now the Ford Class for the US. They represent over 90% of the nuclear carriers, and 100% of the Super-carriers on earth and the ten nimitz are a single class, and the Ford's which replace them will alao be one class.

Second...no, They will not go alone.

Such a huge, expensive, and critical assett will never go to sea (or later, IMHO, to the stars) alone. With the technology available, there will always be people or nations designing smaller, heavily armed combatants, who cannot afford n investment like that, who will seek to neutralize it should it ever be used against them.

Lasers, rail guns, nuclear missiles, etc. all can be mounted on smaller platforms. Newer varities of torpedoes and other sub-surface weapons. A large capitol vessel like a carrier will always need smaller, less expensive, well armed escorts to stand between the large vessel and those threats. I just do not see that changing in the near or long term future. It is the nature of technology.

Now, some might say that in some far off future where all sorts of sci-fi type plasma, ionic, and powerful force fields are possible to protect a vessel, that must be created by the huge power sources only available on large vessels, that this may end. But I say to that...not so fast. Yes, it may take the large power sources only available on such large vessels to create the shields, but that does not necessarily mean that a weapon, that can break through the shield cannot be launched from a vessel that does not have that size. With nuclear weapons or, one day, more exotic weapons like anti-matter weapons, gravitonic weapons, or even space warping or bending weapons that create temporary black holes, singularities, or other quantum events, there will still be the possibility that a weapon can be launched that could defeat the capitol vessel. So,smaller vessels will still be needed to ride shotgun, protect and defend the larger vessels.

Anyhow, that's how I see it.


Great answers gentlemen, now with that in mind, what if you make it submerge-able? That way you eliminated pretty much all the surface and air threats and just focus on the subs? When the subsurface threats are gone, just rise to the surface and launch the planes and missiles.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Great answers gentlemen, now with that in mind, what if you make it submerge-able? That way you eliminated pretty much all the surface and air threats and just focus on the subs? When the subsurface threats are gone, just rise to the surface and launch the planes and missiles.
Well, now it is getting completely off topic. LOL!

I wrote about submersible submarine aircraft carriers being developed in my Dragon's Fury Series novels.

However, I would suggest either finding a thread about Future aircraft Carrier Design, or starting one in either the Member's Club Room, or World Military Forum, to discuss various carrier design considerations for the future.
 
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thunderchief

Senior Member
My take on shape and size of next Chinese aircraft carrier , assuming their usual approach of step-by-step improvement :

1. It will be a STOBAR : Reason is simple . J-15 will be main Chinese naval fighter in next 7-15 years . Apparently , they have finished trials with prototypes and they are moving to LRIP . Therefore , I don't think they would be willing to redesign nose gear , then go to trials again etc ...
Also , currently only US possesses know-how on steam catapults . They offered their help to French and Brazilians , but I don't think they would be obliged to do that for China ;) Therefore , China would have to develop its own system (or go directly to EMALS ) and that would delay whole thing .

2. It will be with similar displacement to Kuznetsov-class , but with better aviation facilities (i.e. more aircraft , better position of lifts etc .. ) . Again , things are simple : if you choose STOBAR design there is no reason to make it very big - you cannot launch anything larger then fighter anyway ;) . I do expect lengthened flight deck compared to Liaoning , to increase useful payload of J-15 .

3. It will be conventionally powered . I'm not entirely sure about this , but with limited size and plans to project power in region , not half-way across the globe ;) , you don't need expensive and maintenance heavy CVN . On the other hand , nuclear propulsion has its advantages , so as I said , I 'm not entirely sure about that .
 

stibyssip

New Member
i don't know if this has already been posted but cctv just announced that the j-15 has entered serial production. this has some exciting implications for the carrier project i think.

[video=youtube;giEY7nJKeIo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giEY7nJKeIo[/video]
 

Franklin

Captain
i don't know if this has already been posted but cctv just announced that the j-15 has entered serial production. this has some exciting implications for the carrier project i think.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/giEY7nJKeIo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

We know that for days now. CCTV is no match for SDF.;)
 

FarkTypeSoldier

Junior Member
i don't know if this has already been posted but cctv just announced that the j-15 has entered serial production. this has some exciting implications for the carrier project i think.

[video=youtube;giEY7nJKeIo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giEY7nJKeIo[/video]

We know that for days now. CCTV is no match for SDF.;)

It is a different visual contact of a navy-grey production plane instead of the usual yellow skin. Its an exciting times ahead.
 
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