PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

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FarkTypeSoldier

Junior Member
2) training and experimential now have to shift from East China Sea to South China Sea due to the tide conditions and demands of all the weapon systems onboard CV-16;


I would like to add on further that I mean the different weather & sea conditions between the north and south now is a good training grounds for all kinds of weapon systems and communication means to be tested on the CV-16
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Realistically, she doesn't need any "protection" at this point since there is nothing to protect her against; being in home water, in peace time, and all.
No, the PRC has too many national interests and their protection, and much treasure and skilled personnel tied up in this vessel. She will not go out to sea alone. Even in peace time, and even in a place like the South China Sea, or anywhere in the China Sea. Too many disputes and potential flash points with Japan, Korea, Vietnam, the Philippines, the US, etc., many of whom have strong navies.

No, you will not see her go out completely unescorted unless it is like from the Dalian Dry Dock to the Dalian Pier...or something like that. Like making her way from her home port anchorage just off shore to meet up with her escorts.

BTW, where are the "escort" ships now? Are they back at NSF ports?
Her escorts, the two Type 051C DDGs and the two Type 054A FFGs, are with her on location in the SCS.

For these types of exercises they may will various formations where one of the DDGs is relatively close (like within a mile or two) while the others are spread out along various threat axis and perhaps 30-50 km from the carrier. Or they could form a tighter formation depending on what they are training for.
 

ladioussupp

Junior Member
[video=youtube;1dgmfo96pqA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dgmfo96pqA[/video]

Basically it introduces the "so-called" CV-16 carrier battle group. You can watch it as a leisure during breaktime.

This maneuver creates an example of passing Taiwan Strait. For an aircraft carrier, it is a choke point before, but PLA can expect Taiwan will do nothing if there is a conflict between China and Japan now.
 

FarkTypeSoldier

Junior Member
This maneuver creates an example of passing Taiwan Strait. For an aircraft carrier, it is a choke point before, but PLA can expect Taiwan will do nothing if there is a conflict between China and Japan now.

A scenario you mean... But the US have something up its sleeves too.

News from recent times are that US congress is going to pass a no. 3470 resolution to sell their retired 4x Perry class FFG to the Taiwanese navy.

These retirees could sure be upgraded with capabilities to hold the PLAN CBG; They could be upgraded with the ASM launchers like what is on the "Taiwanese Perry" (Chung Kung) class bought in the 1990s, although both are of diff tonnage. It would form a classes of Perries to guard their coasts.

The La Faye classes of Taiwanese navy would be an additional threat too!
 

Franklin

Captain
The survelliance by the two US carrier group and Japanese CV is a great and rare opportunity for the CV-16 and her escorts to practise anti-survelliance and anti-electronics operations while the former tried to gather its data intelligence...

Yes, that would have if the Liaoning wasn't docked at Sanya ! She's there for six days now and there are no reports she has left. The milestone that i'm waiting to see is the landing and eventually the production of the twin seat J-15S. This platform is important for electronic warfare, training and buddy refueling operations.
 
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delft

Brigadier
Let's compare a future Chinese carrier with CDG.
CDG is about 40k. Does anyone has information about the weight of the nuclear installation and its shielding?
CDG carries according to Wikipedia 28 to 40 aircraft.
Around 2030 a Chinese carrier can probably use molten salt reactors. While a PWR has an thermal efficiency of about a third, the molten salt reactor is likely to have an efficiency of about half. That means that for the same net power the thermal power of the PWR will be twice that of the molten salt reactor. The energy produced by the split of a U233 will be about the same as for a U235 and the average number of neutrons produced will also be about 2,5 for both. One of those neutrons is absorbed by the next atom to be split and in the molten salt reactor one neutron must be absorbed in the Thorium mantel. Thus the number of neutrons to be absorbed by the shielding in the PWR will be six times that in the molten salt reactor and the same will be true for the weight of the shielding. The molten salt reactor itself will also be much smaller and lighter so we can expect a weight saving of hundreds of tons.
CDG carries 0.7 to 1 aircraft per 1000 tons, just as USN carriers. A somewhat larger Chinese carrier of 60k might well be able to carry as many aircraft, including AEW and ASW aircraft, 42 to 60 with more ease than CDG carries 28 to 40.
 

delft

Brigadier
A scenario you mean... But the US have something up its sleeves too.

News from recent times are that US congress is going to pass a no. 3470 resolution to sell their retired 4x Perry class FFG to the Taiwanese navy.

These retirees could sure be upgraded with capabilities to hold the PLAN CBG; They could be upgraded with the ASM launchers like what is on the "Taiwanese Perry" (Chung Kung) class bought in the 1990s, although both are of diff tonnage. It would form a classes of Perries to guard their coasts.

The La Faye classes of Taiwanese navy would be an additional threat too!
The time for a Taiwan war is passed. China objects to US military sales to Taiwan on political grounds, not because it considers them to be military relevant.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
News from recent times are that US congress is going to pass a no. 3470 resolution to sell their retired 4x Perry class FFG to the Taiwanese navy.

They could be upgraded with the ASM launchers like what is on the "Taiwanese Perry" (Chung Kung) class bought in the 1990s, although both are of diff tonnage. It would form a classes of Perries to guard their coasts.

The La Fayette classes of Taiwanese navy would be an additional threat too!
From an aircraft carrier operation standpoint, China would never need to risk its carrier against Taiwan. The fact that they sailed through there recently shows that they are beyond that worry. And the numbers show it clearly.

The ROC naval force currently includes:

4 x Keelung Class Destroyers (These are the ex-Kidd Class US NAvy destoyers and are very strong)
8 x Chengkung Class Frigates (these are Taiwan license built OH Perry Class Frigates)
6 x Kangding Class Frigates (these are license built French Lafayette Class FFGs)
8 x Chi Yang class Frigates (Exx Knox Class Frigates modernized by Taiwan)

2 x Hai Shih class SSKs (Old World War II US Navy Trench Class subs with the Guppy II upgrade)
2 x Hai Lung Class SSKs (Revised Dutch Zwaardvis SSks from the mid-1980s)

The surface combatants are good vessels. The Kangdings do lack any effective AAW missiles at the moment, though Taiwan is planning to upgrade them soon with effective short to medium range AAW defense. If they get four more OHP frigates, they will replace four of the Knox friagtes. I am sure they will refit the new Perry frigates to be the equivalent of their own frigates. They built their own and certainly have the capability to make that refit relatively quickly.

So, if they do all of that, the ROC Navy will have 26 decent surface combatants.

But submarine capability is lacking. Those two old World War II era Guppy II upgrades were launched in 1945 (they are now approaching 70 years old and still operational), and two 30-year old Hai Yung class (Dutch Zwaadvis class) diesel-electric boats which are still decent, can now launch Harpoon missiles. But there are only two of them, and they would be outclassed by the newer Kilo subs, the Songs, and the Yuans of the PLAN.

The PLAN simply has far too many good diesel-Electric boats (12 kilos, 13 Songs, and 8 Yuans), 33 to date to Taiwan's four (reallt two), and then far too many surface combatants (24 strong frigates, 22 strong destroyers) and growing rapidly. Of these forces, the PLAN could easily deploy an overwhelming force over and have plenty left over.

As I say, the PLAN would never have to employ the carrier. Why would they risk her? They have tremdendous numbers of modern land based air are nearby to cover all of the naval forces. Such an engagement would be sharp and undoubtedly the PLAN would lose a number of vessels...but there would be no doubt as to the outcome. The only hope the ROCN would have is if one or two US carrier battle groups and their esscorts were close-by when it happened, and the US intervened.

As it is, a Delft has said, IMHO, I doubt that such a scenario is ever going to play out at this point. Taiwan knows the military disparity and its economic viability is now unalterably tied to the PRC. IMHO, at this point, Taiwan will try and hold onto the level of independence and autonomy that they have without upsetting the apple cart.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
I have a general question. So if every battle CVG are custom design to each countries needs today, will there ever be a one size fits all super carrier in the future? That included emal, laser CIWS, rail guns, anti-torpedo systems and advance anti-ballistic missile systems ALL in one single carrier vessel with no escorts what so ever. Yes I know it will be huge and expensive but is it technically possible?
 
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