PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

CasualObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
I mean I understand what most of you are saying by that Taiwan naturally is not a peer to the PLA AF but It's still a very formidable adversary and as they are the defensive side, they have the adventage. And not to mention the possible sortie rates and in the event of an invasion/crisis; the PLAAF also has to cover a large area with CAP to make sure the US and Japan don't come to Taiwanese help and not all the aircraft will have air-to-air roles in such an event. So in this situation, although the PLA still has the overall numbers and maybe the tacrical advantage, it still will be a very hard task.

I hope the situation won't ever come to that point though.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
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Some very wild aircraft numbers being thrown around, but what is the context?

One post has ROCAF being wiped out almost instantly, so how long would it take US forced to scramble these numbers?

If ROCAF is wiped out, then the situation on the ground is quite dire. Would these numbers feasibly dislodge PLA forces once on the ground?

What role do sea based SAMs play? What if 4 055 were in the strait?

I think you might be referring to my post. The premise is that this will likely be a gradual buildup in PLAAF presence around Taiwan. As PLAAF continues to build up and dominate the air space over Taiwan, that will demoralize ROCAF and the rest of Taiwanese military. Not just in terms of ROCAF unable to intercept PLAAF aircraft but also getting consistently locked on when they do engage. That's psychologically a huge strike in the mind of ROCAF. ROCAF is also facing a crisis of getting adequately trained pilots in its service. It's not coincidence that we are seeing this many fatal crashes with ROCAF. It's like to get even worse and PLAAF's J-16 fleet continues to increase its size. Adding F-16Vs with not help ROCAF if they can't get experienced pilots into them. As PLAAF normalizes larger and large air groups in these incursions, ROCAF is leaving itself vulnerable to a day when PLAAF actually does attack. Until then, it's one of the best places for PLAAF to train and coordinate larger and larger attack formations. It also puts the inevitably of unification on the mind of Taiwanese public, especially the society elites in Taipei. Those were already the most likely of Taiwanese society to accept a re-runification. Culturally, Taiwan is a lot closer to China than Hong Kong is. There is a lot of Taiwanese that live or have worked out of mainland. When I went there in 2017, I didn't sense Taiwanese people looking down on mainlanders in the same way that they did 15 years ago.

So ideally, you put so much military and economic pressure over Taiwan that they accept some form a re-unification. Something like continued self governance but handing all the military base and protection over to PLAAF. That alone would open a huge lane for PLAN into the second chain. I would put this as not very likely.

In the scenario where Taiwan does not agree to re-unification, the next best option is a lightning quick attack that disables all of Taiwan's air defense and destroys military aircraft while they are on the ground followed by landing a lot of troops next to Taipei, Taichung and Kaohsiung. That's where the Y-20s, 071s/075s, UCAVs and attack helicopters come into play. You want to take over all the major government and media building as quickly and with little damage/deaths as possible. Of course, they should land enough troops into Taiwan to fight a more resistant army. The goal is to demoralize the politicians, the elites and the army so much, that they will quickly give up. PLA should not voluntarily attempt an offensive until they are confident of this.

In this scenario, there is a very good chance no other countries will get involved. That's the best case scenario for the regular folks around the world.

We need to see the following with PLA:
- Overwhelming dominance and control of air space of Taiwan. That requires ability to sustain large aircraft formations for long period of time. (this is the most important)
- Large fleet of Y-20s able to drop a lot of troops and tanks into Taiwan.
- More LHDs and LPDs able to transport a lot of amphibious combat vehicles, troops into Taiwan
- A lot more helicopters - both of attack and transport variety. Need to see Type 075s with a large horde of attack helicopter.
- UCAVs that can take out Taiwanese armored vehicle when given complete air control
All of the above can be achieved in the next few years.

I definitely do not think it's in China's best interest to get into a full out war with Japan. Too much economic dependence between the two countries. It's in China's national interest to keep any conflict to a rapid takeover of Taiwan like how Russia took over Crimea.

Now, the PLA commanders have to plan for the scenario of US and Japan getting involved. So, they have to plan for mostly taking over Taiwan and then having to defend it from US looking to free Taiwan. That's the scenario where you need to have a sizable numerical advantage in 5th gen aircraft and a good number of stealth bombers. That's what will allow them to retain advantage in any subsequent conflict.

Again, steer clear of any thoughts about taking over disputed islands. China still needs to have normal trading relationship with other countries after all is over. They really just need to not have Taiwan blocking their navy into the 2nd chain of islands.
 

FriedButter

Colonel
Registered Member
So ideally, you put so much military and economic pressure over Taiwan that they accept some form a re-unification. Something like continued self governance but handing all the military base and protection over to PLAAF. That alone would open a huge lane for PLAN into the second chain. I would put this as not very likely.

More likely to implode in a civil war. No way the hardliners back down without a fight. Especially, when they can get lubed up with propaganda, money, and weapons by western spy agencies.

I definitely do not think it's in China's best interest to get into a full out war with Japan. Too much economic dependence between the two countries. It's in China's national interest to keep any conflict to a rapid takeover of Taiwan like how Russia took over Crimea.
IMO. If Japan does come to shove then it gives China an opportunity to actually control the disputed island. Especially, if they militarized and deploy US forces there to be used against China in an event of a war.

Let’s assume China has Taiwan. How likely would those disputed islands be turned into a CIA outpost to spy on China?
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
I think you might be referring to my post. The premise is that this will likely be a gradual buildup in PLAAF presence around Taiwan. As PLAAF continues to build up and dominate the air space over Taiwan, that will demoralize ROCAF and the rest of Taiwanese military. Not just in terms of ROCAF unable to intercept PLAAF aircraft but also getting consistently locked on when they do engage. That's psychologically a huge strike in the mind of ROCAF. ROCAF is also facing a crisis of getting adequately trained pilots in its service. It's not coincidence that we are seeing this many fatal crashes with ROCAF. It's like to get even worse and PLAAF's J-16 fleet continues to increase its size. Adding F-16Vs with not help ROCAF if they can't get experienced pilots into them. As PLAAF normalizes larger and large air groups in these incursions, ROCAF is leaving itself vulnerable to a day when PLAAF actually does attack. Until then, it's one of the best places for PLAAF to train and coordinate larger and larger attack formations. It also puts the inevitably of unification on the mind of Taiwanese public, especially the society elites in Taipei. Those were already the most likely of Taiwanese society to accept a re-runification. Culturally, Taiwan is a lot closer to China than Hong Kong is. There is a lot of Taiwanese that live or have worked out of mainland. When I went there in 2017, I didn't sense Taiwanese people looking down on mainlanders in the same way that they did 15 years ago.

So ideally, you put so much military and economic pressure over Taiwan that they accept some form a re-unification. Something like continued self governance but handing all the military base and protection over to PLAAF. That alone would open a huge lane for PLAN into the second chain. I would put this as not very likely.

In the scenario where Taiwan does not agree to re-unification, the next best option is a lightning quick attack that disables all of Taiwan's air defense and destroys military aircraft while they are on the ground followed by landing a lot of troops next to Taipei, Taichung and Kaohsiung. That's where the Y-20s, 071s/075s, UCAVs and attack helicopters come into play. You want to take over all the major government and media building as quickly and with little damage/deaths as possible. Of course, they should land enough troops into Taiwan to fight a more resistant army. The goal is to demoralize the politicians, the elites and the army so much, that they will quickly give up. PLA should not voluntarily attempt an offensive until they are confident of this.

In this scenario, there is a very good chance no other countries will get involved. That's the best case scenario for the regular folks around the world.

We need to see the following with PLA:
- Overwhelming dominance and control of air space of Taiwan. That requires ability to sustain large aircraft formations for long period of time. (this is the most important)
- Large fleet of Y-20s able to drop a lot of troops and tanks into Taiwan.
- More LHDs and LPDs able to transport a lot of amphibious combat vehicles, troops into Taiwan
- A lot more helicopters - both of attack and transport variety. Need to see Type 075s with a large horde of attack helicopter.
- UCAVs that can take out Taiwanese armored vehicle when given complete air control
All of the above can be achieved in the next few years.

I definitely do not think it's in China's best interest to get into a full out war with Japan. Too much economic dependence between the two countries. It's in China's national interest to keep any conflict to a rapid takeover of Taiwan like how Russia took over Crimea.

Now, the PLA commanders have to plan for the scenario of US and Japan getting involved. So, they have to plan for mostly taking over Taiwan and then having to defend it from US looking to free Taiwan. That's the scenario where you need to have a sizable numerical advantage in 5th gen aircraft and a good number of stealth bombers. That's what will allow them to retain advantage in any subsequent conflict.

Again, steer clear of any thoughts about taking over disputed islands. China still needs to have normal trading relationship with other countries after all is over. They really just need to not have Taiwan blocking their navy into the 2nd chain of islands.
It was the cumulation of posts, it was mentioned that US could bring 100's of additional aircraft from CONUS to bring to bear.
Logically speaking, if US had to start bolstering their forces like that, then what is the situation on the ground in Taiwan like? It would mean that the island must be occupied.

I had asked many pages ago, does anyone think the US could launch a liberation operation like Incheon. How would that be possible? This air war scenario seems almost secondary to sea control. If PLA was able to occupy Taiwan, that would mean the US is trying to land on the Eastern side which as I understand is mostly rocky cliffs?

If PLA has sea control, then I think the additional anti aircraft capabilities of DDGs cannot be ignored, but I don't see them mentioned.

From a non-military standpoint I don't think that there's any reason to believe that PRC is seeking a military solution. This is a narrative constantly fanned by Western media and DPP administrations. Why does Tsai NEED to say Taiwan is independent? Really it is just a dog and pony show for Western audiences. As you mentioned, all the elite of Taiwan business have deep connections to China.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I mean I understand what most of you are saying by that Taiwan naturally is not a peer to the PLA AF but It's still a very formidable adversary and as they are the defensive side, they have the adventage. And not to mention the possible sortie rates and in the event of an invasion/crisis; the PLAAF also has to cover a large area with CAP to make sure the US and Japan don't come to Taiwanese help and not all the aircraft will have air-to-air roles in such an event. So in this situation, although the PLA still has the overall numbers and maybe the tacrical advantage, it still will be a very hard task.

I hope the situation won't ever come to that point though.
Being on the defensive is not a general advantage in air warfare. The attacker chooses when and where to concentrate forces, the defender has to cover every possibility and maintain readiness. The attacker can use any means at their disposal to attack aircraft on the ground while the defender can only use aircraft and anti aircraft munitions to engage the attacker.

The only advantage is that of shorter supply lines and higher sortie rates but that doesn't apply here because the supply lines for both sides is short and sortie rates are limited by enemy action not domestic logistics.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I mean I understand what most of you are saying by that Taiwan naturally is not a peer to the PLA AF but It's still a very formidable adversary and as they are the defensive side, they have the adventage. And not to mention the possible sortie rates and in the event of an invasion/crisis; the PLAAF also has to cover a large area with CAP to make sure the US and Japan don't come to Taiwanese help and not all the aircraft will have air-to-air roles in such an event. So in this situation, although the PLA still has the overall numbers and maybe the tacrical advantage, it still will be a very hard task.

I hope the situation won't ever come to that point though.

If we're talking about a ground invasion, then yes, Taiwan potentially is still very formidable.
But if we're talking about the Chinese military obtaining air superiority over Taiwan, that is actually easy now.

Also, it's not about China defending a large area with CAP against aircraft from Japan/USA.
If it gets to that point, it's far more effective to go on the offensive and ensure that the airbases hosting the aircraft are attacked every day.

But if we're talking about a localised Taiwanese conflict, US aircraft just don't have the persistence to sending large numbers of aircraft all the time.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
I must say that I don't understood the appeal of disputed islands or lands that I would never want to live in. And where the economic/resource value of nearby waters is quite disputed. For the SCS islands, I can at least see the strategic value allowing them to dominate a very strategic water where massive amount of trades pass through. If they do reunify with Taiwan, there is nothing blocking PLAN from reaching Guam and controlling most of the western part of the Pacific Ocean. Why would China risk long term damage to economic relationship with US and Japan by trying to take over Japanese islands? That makes no sense.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
A war with China over Taiwan is a nightmare scenario for the US.

Any escalation will have unpredictable results. Does anyone believe that once the missiles start flying, Russia and North Korea will sit still?

Remember that NK has a mutual defense treaty with China. Should the US attack China over Taiwan, the treaty will be invoked. NK has been itching to fight SK for decades. Should the US find itself in a two-front war in the West Pacific, Russia will make is move on Ukraine. NATO gets involved, and pretty soon US is fighting on three fronts.

While the US is busy, Israel's neighbors will see this as the perfect opportunity for some payback.

Excellent analysis, don't forget Iran to be added ...... Iran will play a bit in that region too, including Israel (as you mentioned)

If British got involved there ... opportunity for Argentina to re-claim Malvinas

If Japan got involved, many Chinese would hope so to return favour of what Japanese did in Nanking 100x over
 

solarz

Brigadier
Excellent analysis, don't forget Iran to be added ...... Iran will play a bit in that region too, including Israel (as you mentioned)

If British got involved there ... opportunity for Argentina to re-claim Malvinas

If Japan got involved, many Chinese would hope so to return favour of what Japanese did in Nanking 100x over

Yup, such is the predicament of the hegemon: you have to defend everything, your adversaries are always those strong enough to defy you, and your allies are always the weak toadies who seek to shelter under your mantle.
 
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