PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

RoastGooseHKer

New Member
Registered Member
That's nullified by the preceding phrase 'We expect cross-Strait differences to be resolved by peaceful means, free from coercion'.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
NATO also expected the Russo-Ukrainian conflict to be resolved by peaceful means, free from coercion. Such expectations are based on the balance of power and subjective political will/interpretations of ever evolving facts in the ground. Such subjective political will to take actions and also depend on how much one party is willing to put up with the sacrifices and unmeasurable opportunity costs necessary to achieve its ultimate objective.
For example, if losing Taiwan could threaten the very political survival of CPC at home, then any crisis could become a fight to the death for Beijing. Yet, somehow if the majority of Chinese citizens no longer consider (or care) Taiwan to be an unresolved historical and identify issue, then there would be less of a willingness for Beijing to put up with the sacrifices necessary to take back Taiwan.
Same calculation holds true for the U.S. and Japan.
 

zyklon

Junior Member
Registered Member
If this is true, he's tried this strategy before to no avail. View attachment 145745
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

We can characterize this as another example of stubbornness, stupidity, insanity or determination on the part of Trump. However, I'm not sure if it really matters how we frame it.

Besides Taiwan -- which represents an issue that both the Chinese authorities and populace are quite attached to and committed to resolving in China's favor -- what else will provide Trump more potential leverage in negotiations with Beijing?

In all fairness, Trump is just trying to make the most out of the hand he has been dealt.
 

Neurosmith

Junior Member
Registered Member
There is no conflict without a full scale US invasion.

How can US sell arms to someone under blockade that's massively infiltrated and faces daily bombings that can (conservatively speaking) be up to 20-50x as much we've seen in Palestine?

Also you misunderstand on the point of economics. China doesn't count Taiwan as part of its 39T economy. Even if the whole province became a parking lot, the only impact on Chinese gdp would be the cost of weapons and military wages. Which as we see with other conflicts can both be a "cost" but also a "boost".

If the civil war goes hot again and US doesn't invade, it's game over in days/weeks for KMT. It's just going to be Assad 2.0 or what Russia feared Zelensky would do to the LDPR.

Since the current US leadership seems to want to avoid direct conflict, it means China will just pick up and clean house, soon.
Even if the US is not involved, there would still be a conflict, albeit a smaller one. The Chinese would likely take steps to minimize the risk of US involvement.

It's very clear. They dropped the "we do not support Taiwan independence" part, that's all I need to know, all the other stuff is just fluff.

In the end it doesn't matter because the PLA has always been factoring in US intervention. The only thing that this wording change achieves is that we, the public, can now for sure say that the PLA will strike US assets the moment it gets the greenlight for AR
I'm surprised at how many members here believe that the Chinese would preemptively attack US forces in the Pacific. The greatest barrier to a successful Taiwan campaign is US intervention, and attacking US assets would be a sure-fire way to ensure that.

Even if the US provides support to Taiwan through intelligence and surveillance, I doubt that China would retaliate kinetically out of fear of US intervention.

And let's not get into the hypotheticals of how China could "defeat" the US in the Pacific because that's not a gamble that China's leadership would be willing to take.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
I'm surprised at how many members here believe that the Chinese would preemptively attack US forces in the Pacific. The greatest barrier to a successful Taiwan campaign is US intervention, and attacking US assets would be a sure-fire way to ensure that.

Even if the US provides support to Taiwan through intelligence and surveillance, I doubt that China would retaliate kinetically out of fear of US intervention.

And let's not get into the hypotheticals of how China could "defeat" the US in the Pacific because that's not a gamble that China's leadership would be willing to take.
I see that a member already reacted with a laughing emoji.

Very appropriately for the content of your post, he is named ismellcopium. I think that sums up my answer pretty well
 

Neurosmith

Junior Member
Registered Member
I see that a member already reacted with a laughing emoji.

Very appropriately for the content of your post, he is named ismellcopium. I think that sums up my answer pretty well
If you have legit reasons for thinking that China would carry out your strategy, I'd like to hear them.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
If you have legit reasons for thinking that China would carry out your strategy, I'd like to hear them.
PR and diplomacy ain't bringing anything that your military power isn't able to do.

If you think that in AR, PLA would attempt amphibious landings with US forces waiting to strike I got a bridge for you.

Russian lesson is a clear one. If you go into war, you go decisively, not by half measures. US either has to credibly demonstrate that it won't intervene or PLA has to account for worse scenario and strike it


As for your comment of China fearing a US intervention. Dude, if China didn't fear and fought US forces in Korea when it was dirt poor and poorly equipped why do you think it fears US now..
 
Last edited:

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
-The beautiful thing is that the One China Policy holds even if the other party don't like it, if the US wants to establish diplomatic relationship with Taipei then the Beijing is going to cut theirs, every single WH call to Beijing is going to be redirected to Taipei. I personally think that Trump would prefer to deal with Mr. Xi than Mr. Lai

-Then there is Europe, looks like Ukraine is toast, the US is going to force them to accept their losses or they are going cut aid to Ukraine, Trump doesn't want spend another half trillions dollars in that country and Europeans thanks to being perpetuals US lapdogs don't have any capabilities to support Ukraine neither military or economically, Putin will have Zelensky head in a stick if he doesn't take the deal. So that means I don't think the Europeans are going to Asia anytime soon.

-Then there is capabilities, I don't think the US really have the capabilities to project power efficiently, if they ever had, the US hadn't faced a near peer adversary since the end of the cold war, they barely being able to defend Israel from Iranian missiles and they struggling with Yemenis militias. China arsenal is probably not only many times bigger but also seems more diverse, China industrial capabilities is many times bigger and to make things worse their objective is tiny space at 130 Km in front of their coast and even worse considering that Taiwan holds more value for China than for the US.
I think the first weeks the US it may seem they are holding up but I think if the war extents or become Ukraine 2.0, the US war machine I think could fall apart pretty quickly, China may have the capabilities of shutting down US stealth bombers and if the US lose those, is over, non stealth planes have no chance.

-Then there is the issue of "for what we are going to fight for", if the issue is because "semiconductors" then may be over before begin, the US is moving TSMC to US, whatever is the hype of invasion or tariff TSMC is going to the US whatever they like it or not. And for Japan there is even less justification given that the rise of TSMC was a big reason of their fall and TSMC partnership with ASML the reason for the fall of Nikon, the fall of Taiwan semiconductor could mean Renaissance of Japan semiconductor industry. And there is the issue that if China knows that the willing to fight is to defend that island semiconductor industry then destroying that island foundries day one and provoking the fastest brain drain in history with hundred of thousand of Taiwanese semi talent moving overseas, could reduce the effort.

-Then there is Taiwan itself, I do think between the fall of Ukraine, seeing their crown jewels being literally stolen by the US under the DPP and threat of war, may be the downfall of the DPP and most pro independence parties, I think the KMT may become the ruling party again and may seek better cross strait relations with the mainland to avoid a conflict to much of the dismay of the D.C. stooges.
 

AndrewJ

New Member
Registered Member
I'm fairly disappointed with KMT, suspecting if they could complete anything, given their infamous record. :confused:

None of the parties in Taiwan is capable enough or satisfactory to the mainland. DPP is a separatist party, and KMT is the most incompetent party ever seen. The situation in Taiwan is so complicated, that any elected party is unlikely capable of dealing with it.

After the 2019 massive separatist protests in Hong Kong, many Chinese have realized that it's necessary to unify Taiwan with FORCE. Peaceful unification may be achieved easily for China in the short term, but some deep-rooted issues remain, and will break out years later. Force unification is a way to solve these issues once and for all.

Meanwhile, there are common suspicions about the PLA's military strength around the world. Taiwan is a perfect testing ground. Superpowers are not superpowers without a strong military. You need wars to prove that. Otherwise many won't accept China and keep their illusions about US supremacy.

But wars carry risks. The US established its supremacy after the Gulf War, whereas Russia's army became a joke after SVO started. CCP top leaders know that and are carefully preparing for it.
 
Last edited:

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Even if the US is not involved, there would still be a conflict, albeit a smaller one. The Chinese would likely take steps to minimize the risk of US involvement.

I'm surprised at how many members here believe that the Chinese would preemptively attack US forces in the Pacific. The greatest barrier to a successful Taiwan campaign is US intervention, and attacking US assets would be a sure-fire way to ensure that.

Even if the US provides support to Taiwan through intelligence and surveillance, I doubt that China would retaliate kinetically out of fear of US intervention.

And let's not get into the hypotheticals of how China could "defeat" the US in the Pacific because that's not a gamble that China's leadership would be willing to take.
Your problem is believing US can win a war with China and Chinese leadership is fearful of the US.
 

zyklon

Junior Member
Registered Member
Even if the US is not involved, there would still be a conflict, albeit a smaller one. The Chinese would likely take steps to minimize the risk of US involvement.


I'm surprised at how many members here believe that the Chinese would preemptively attack US forces in the Pacific. The greatest barrier to a successful Taiwan campaign is US intervention, and attacking US assets would be a sure-fire way to ensure that.

Even if the US provides support to Taiwan through intelligence and surveillance, I doubt that China would retaliate kinetically out of fear of US intervention.

And let's not get into the hypotheticals of how China could "defeat" the US in the Pacific because that's not a gamble that China's leadership would be willing to take.

As it stands, the US will absolutely be providing Taiwan with ISR support in the event of a kinetic conflict between Beijing and Taipei . . . at least until the relevant USG personnel on assignment in Taiwan are evacuated and/or the infrastructure they depend on for ongoing operations are too degraded to function due to cyber and/or kinetic warfare.

Not too sure why more people aren't aware or mindful of this, but the US has been collecting intelligence, especially SIGINT, on Mainland China from Taiwan since the 1950s, if not the 1940s. The associated infrastructure has dwindled, at least visibly, since the 1970s due to the normalization of relations between Washington and Beijing, but why would Washington or Taipei let it all go?

US ISR support to Taiwan has been ongoing for decades, and is in all likelihood happening right now as we speak, and is probably 24/7 as it is with a lot of SIGINT and ELINT mission sets. Granted, Uncle Sam doesn't make an effort to publicize it.

What happens if things heat up, and the PLARF demolishes a SCIF occupied by both ROC and US personnel whose presence has been an open secret for decades, but has largely been concealed from public discourse? Will Uncle Sam even make a fuss about it in public?!

The point I'm trying to make is that when it comes to any future kinetic conflict across the Taiwan Strait, there are going to be grey zones for Beijing and Washington.

PR and diplomacy ain't bringing anything that your military power isn't able to d
If you think that in AR, PLA would attempt amphibious landings with US forces waiting to strike I got a bridge for you.

Russian lesson is a clear one. If you go into war, you go decisively, not by half measures. US either has to credibly demonstrate that it won't intervene or PLA has to account for worse scenario and strike it


As for your comment of China fearing a US intervention. Dude, if China didn't fear and fought US forces in Korea when it was dirt poor and poorly equipped why do you think it fears US now..

This isn't about whether China is afraid of the US or whether the US is afraid of China.

China is where she is politically, militarily and economically today because she has been patient and strategic in cultivating and strengthening the economic, technological and military foundations essential to resolving the Taiwan issue, be it by word or by sword.

While the Chinese are certainly aware of the necessity of war, they're also wise enough to know that it is best to avoid violence if the threat of violence will suffice.

Not to get cliche, but to quote Sun Tzu: 不战而屈人之兵,善之善者也

Your problem is believing US can win a war with China and Chinese leadership is fearful of the US.

The Chinese leadership need not fear the US, but the problem is: the current senior political leadership in the US is not only inexperienced and disorganized, but arguably reckless and myopic at times.

It's one thing if Uncle Sam was a rational actor, but how do you deal and negotiate with someone who is out of their depth, if not out of their mind and perhaps at times deluded after years of drug abuse?
 
Top