PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

If you thought the China-Taiwan issue was humiliating, imagine being in the time of the Han dynasty before it finally was strong enough to conquer the Xiongnu. Or being king Goujian who lived as a servant in the state of Wu before he finally got revenge.

It really sucks having to ask everyday when will we finally have victory and get even with them. But once you do, suddenly all that humuliation in the past meant nothing coz you won in the end. You can spend 100 years looking weak and stupid. But if you win in the end, then thats that. People can say what they want about how you looked stupid but you can say yeah, but I won in end. Those guys who humiliated me are now gone. I know which guy I rather be.

manqiangrexue said:

For the level-minded people, I am just understanding now that the Chinese small fishing vessel capsized from its own behaviors as it was being chased by the ROC coast guard. They weren't shot at, water-cannoned, ramed, or anything else, am I correct? And then the ROC coast guard immediately tried to save them but resuscitation efforts failed on the 2 deceased. If this is the case, I find it difficult to even criticize the ROC coast guard without digging real deep and basically telling them that they should all mutany for their Chinese bloodline. They should but... we're just kinda not there in the conversation yet, ya know?

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You have made a serious mistake: you are assuming that the other party has legal jurisdiction. You have repeatedly accused me of being either a spy or a fool, but now you are standing on the enemy's side?

Randomuser said:

If you thought the China-Taiwan issue was humiliating, imagine being in the time of the Han dynasty before it finally was strong enough to conquer the Xiongnu. Or being king Goujian who lived as a servant in the state of Wu before he finally got revenge.

It really sucks having to ask everyday when will we finally have victory and get even with them. But once you do, suddenly all that humuliation in the past meant nothing coz you won in the end. You can spend 100 years looking weak and stupid. But if you win in the end, then thats that. People can say what they want about how you looked stupid but you can say yeah, but I won in end. Those guys who humiliated me are now gone. I know which guy I rather be.

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Historical allusions only apply to the past, and there is no shortage of dynasties that perished due to unrestrained concessions and compromises in history. I don't think it's a good idea to wait until things turn into bloodshed and conflict that cannot be concealed before solving the problem.

The Fujian government is cautiously demanding that everyone align their views with the government.
The government continues to demonstrate their ugliness and arrogance in this major emergency.

zhangjim said:

You have made a serious mistake: you are assuming that the other party has legal jurisdiction. You have repeatedly accused me of being either a spy or a fool, but now you are standing on the enemy's side?

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Yeah, I accuse you, because you are trying to incite disunity against the CCP. I make no mistake and I fully understand and agree that Taiwan is an illegal government with no jurisdication. However, I am a realist. The fact is that we are not at the point where we are ready to end their illegal existance and their illegal jurisdication. Given that, people have to behave in line with reality, which is that we are pushing back on what they can do, expanding what we can do, but have not yet pushed to the point where they have given up patroling all of what they claim. In this incident, the Chinese vessel approached within 1 mile of the island. We have simply not gotten to the point where the Taiwanese give up patrolling even in 1nm of coast yet. The vessel did not do it with the backing of the Chinese coast guard; they did it on their own and they did not have the skills to maneuver their boat properly, causing it to capsize. This is an embarassment.

zhangjim said:

Historical allusions only apply to the past, and there is no shortage of dynasties that perished due to unrestrained concessions and compromises in history. I don't think it's a good idea to wait until things turn into bloodshed and conflict that cannot be concealed before solving the problem.
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This is no concession. Decades ago, ROC flew aircraft over the mainland. Now, none of them dare encroach on our controlled territories and all of our ships sail and aircraft fly where we want. This vessel pushed too far; we have not yet backed them down to the point where they relinquish all control of the seas and on top of it, they could not competently maneuver their vessel.

zhangjim said:

The Fujian government is cautiously demanding that everyone align their views with the government.

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Yes, people should. A united China is an unbeatable one. When the CCP wants to push forward, we oblige. When they want to parry or move, we follow. We the Chinese people are soldiers; good soldiers follow orders, they do not argue with the general. When the captain makes a mistake, the team follows up on the next move; they do not blame him. These are the actions of a winning team. These are the actions that the US fears from the Chinese people. Your disunity and attacks on your own team leadership are exactly the type of behavior Americans want out of Chinese people so I can only assume your alignment by your behavior, not by your useless explanations or fake outbursts of emotions.

zhangjim said:

The government continues to demonstrate their ugliness and arrogance in this major emergency.

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The ugliness is with the shills that want the Chinese people to attack and go against their own government. You never fail to fill that role to the delight of Americans.

manqiangrexue said:

The vessel did not do it with the backing of the Chinese coast guard; they did it on their own and they did not have the skills to maneuver their boat properly, causing it to capsize. This is an embarassment.

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I think I need a few days to recover my mental state. But I tell you, pretending to be rational does not necessarily mean true rationality. I hate your behavior of defending the other party. Two people lost their lives, but you are looking for their responsibility? What laws have they violated?
There are too many people like you who, whenever such a major event occurs, first reflect on whether you have done something wrong to make the other person unhappy.
Perhaps in a few days, the government will make some superficial efforts to appease the people, and then you can use the news to mock me.

manqiangrexue said:

Yes, people should. A united China is an unbeatable one.

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manqiangrexue said:

The ugliness is with the shills that want the Chinese people to attack and go against their own government. You, as always.

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The consistent language used by the royalist party. Leaders are always visionary, and we can never understand them?
You think whoever you don't like is a spy.
A cold-blooded person like you will only consider the tragedy that just happened as a "necessary sacrifice", but completely ignore the reasons that caused all of this. In such a major event, the government has fully demonstrated their rigidity, sluggishness, and lack of means to appease the people.
Do you really think this method of pleasing enemies with money is right? Do you want them to kill a few more people to make them happy?

zhangjim said:

I think I need a few days to recover my mental state.

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You need a lot more than that. Maybe a professional can help.

zhangjim said:

But I tell you, pretending to be rational does not necessarily mean true rationality.

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And I can tell you to check how many people, how many Chinese people who always post in China's favor, agree with me and how many disagree with you. When you're driving on the road and see everyone driving the opposite direction of you, time to realize you're on the wrong side of the road.

zhangjim said:

I hate your behavior of defending the other party.

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And I hate your stupid random outbursts attacking your own government. Looks like everyone else does too. You embarrass Chinese people; we're Chinese people and you embarrass us.

zhangjim said:

Two people lost their lives, but you are looking for their responsibility? What laws have they violated?

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Yes, these people died because they did something beyond their ability. If I go into the forest at night with no weapons and I get killed by a bear or wolf, who's responsibility is it? What laws did I violate? No laws, I would have died for acting stupid. Do I blame the government for not protecting me against my own stupidity?

zhangjim said:

There are too many people like you who, whenever such a major event occurs, first reflect on whether you have done something wrong to make the other person unhappy.

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No, I don't care about the other person. But I care that China and Chinese people only do smart things. When major events happen, I reflect on what I could have done better for a better outcome against my enemy. I never care for his happiness.

zhangjim said:

Perhaps in a few days, the government will make some superficial efforts to appease the people, and then you can use the news to mock me.

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I don't care about you. You know your place and I'll leave you alone. You want to insult the CCP because they're not here to defend themselves, then I will defend them and put you under attack to see how you like it.

zhangjim said:

The consistent language used by the royalist party. Leaders are always visionary, and we can never understand them?

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I can. We can. Obviously you can't. That's your mental problem.

zhangjim said:

You think whoever you don't like is a spy.

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No, actually. I have disagreements with many people here and never called them that. I didn't call you a spy either because you're not looking for information. I called you a useful idiot for the US at best but most likely a shill spreading US propaganda because your actions are exactly what the US wants. I judge people by actions, not their explanations.

zhangjim said:

A cold-blooded person

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You mean an intelligent person who analyzes and plans rather than lets his emotions explode out of his eyes?

zhangjim said:

like you will only consider the tragedy that just happened as a "necessary sacrifice",

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No, it was completely unnecesssary. They were totally unprepared and did something that achieved nothing but embarrass themselves and Chinese people. They can't even drive a damn boat!

zhangjim said:

but completely ignore the reasons that caused all of this.

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No, I explained all of them. The reason is that while we curl back the ROC's areas of control, we haven't gotten withing 1nm yet but these guys who can't drive a boat decided to drive it there anyway to see what happens. Nothing good.

zhangjim said:

In such a major event, the government has fully demonstrated their rigidity, sluggishness, and lack of means to appease the people.

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Nobody needs to appease people like you. The important thing is that educated people like us understand.

zhangjim said:

Do you really think this method of pleasing enemies with money is right?

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I'm sorry, did we give them money?

zhangjim said:

Do you want them to kill a few more people to make them happy?

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Only if you're one of them. Smart people are working every day to tilt the power balance more and more towards China. But we don't have a leash on what stupid people do. If you decide to swim over right now, or wreck your tiny boat on a rock and drown, it's really you vs your own stupidity. The Chinese people are not behind you.

zhangjim said:

Two people lost their lives, but you are looking for their responsibility?

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Are you prepared to have your body torn apart by shrapnel? To burn to death in the body of a crashed rotorcraft? To bleed out after a bullet shatters your femur and tears your femoral artery open? No? Then shut the fuck up. The lives of the 2 million men in the PLA are not toys for you to play with.

zhangjim said:

I think I need a few days to recover my mental state. But I tell you, pretending to be rational does not necessarily mean true rationality. I hate your behavior of defending the other party. Two people lost their lives, but you are looking for their responsibility? What laws have they violated?
There are too many people like you who, whenever such a major event occurs, first reflect on whether you have done something wrong to make the other person unhappy.
Perhaps in a few days, the government will make some superficial efforts to appease the people, and then you can use the news to mock me.


The consistent language used by the royalist party. Leaders are always visionary, and we can never understand them?
You think whoever you don't like is a spy.
A cold-blooded person like you will only consider the tragedy that just happened as a "necessary sacrifice", but completely ignore the reasons that caused all of this. In such a major event, the government has fully demonstrated their rigidity, sluggishness, and lack of means to appease the people.
Do you really think this method of pleasing enemies with money is right? Do you want them to kill a few more people to make them happy?

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@zhangjim look, how about we just agree to disagree on this particular issue and the what the right course of actions the Chinese government made. We all want, desire what you are longing for with a hot passion of a burning sun: the complete reunification of Taiwan back into China. We have not lost sight of that and just because most of us on this forum don't agree with your analysis, recommendations or worse, your blame which is casting the CPC solely as soulless, uncaring entity to the plight of those fisher folk that perished. China is in a titanic war with most people in the world consider as the mightiest country in the history of mankind: the U.S.A.

A statement of fact that we can't simply wish aside based on our strong feelings of betrayal, hurt, and humiliation. The struggle is not just for righting a historical wrong (losing Taiwan to Japan, and then betrayed by our fellow peoples that set up their own government in the island) but to ensure that when China finally regains Taiwan we also ensure that American influence and her many vassals around and inside China are all extinguished and exhumed into oblivion.

Your desire for justice and revenge for those 2 fallen fisher folk is just, noble, and completely understandable as a fellow Chinese and as a human being. But as I have expressed to you before that we can't let our negative passion override logic which will stray away from our strategic objective. China isn't yet fully ready to dismember China's strategic enemy and to underestimate her most formidable enemy is to invite complete peril to the country. We won't have to lament the loss of 2 fisher folks but the unnecessary loss of millions of our people.

What our fellow member @manqiangrexue stances argues for is that we must be dispassionate and objective with our analysis and not lose sight of this fact that we are all yearning as Chinese people which is the complete unity of all Chinese lands back to China. Strategic thinking and actions don't require emotional outburst and demand that maybe able to quench our human desires of revenge but is ultimately futile. Think of why Sun Tzu's stratagem is a timeless classic of military strategy read and studied by our friends and adversaries: COLD STRATEGIC CALCULATION.
In essence, while emotions and intuition can play a role in the strategic process, especially in understanding human factors and motivations, the core of strategic thinking and decision-making benefits greatly from a dispassionate, rational approach.

Tibet 2008 vs now, Xinjiang 2011 vs now, Hong Kong 2019 vs now.

The defense rests.

The maritime police are finally going to take action.
Some people may praise this as a brilliant strategy, but I am a person with memories.
A wise strategy is built on decades of tolerance and dereliction of duty. The lives of civilians have become the sacrifice of these "perfect responses".
As a defensive counterattack tactic, it is perfect, but it is unpleasant to think of using unfortunate victims as an excuse to intervene every time.

This shows that the authorities are still responding to these emergencies with a passive approach, and it seems that I will not see them taking the initiative in the short term. "Everything serves politics," but this strategy is too rigid.

zhangjim said:

The maritime police are finally going to take action.

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If they're ready to push, I certainly welcome it. I didn't think they'd do so so fast since it's safer waiting for China to rise and the US to decline more but with the US bogged down in Ukraine and Israel, it could be time for more salami slicing. I trust they know better than me and everyone to know far far better than @zhangjim .

zhangjim said:

Some people may praise this as a brilliant strategy,

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But most people just watch since we don't know enough to judge the strategies of those with much more information than us.

zhangjim said:

but I am a person with memories.

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Remember when everyone stomped you out yesterday until you had nothing left except cutie little angry emoticons? LOLOL

zhangjim said:

A wise strategy is built on decades of tolerance and dereliction of duty.

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Tolerance is needed when you need time to bridge a power gap. The only dereliction of duty is not arresting US internet moles like @zhangjim for trying to incite unrest among the Chinese people against their own government. But it is a small dereliction because he is useless and unconvincing.

zhangjim said:

The lives of civilians have become the sacrifice of these "perfect responses".
As a defensive counterattack tactic, it is perfect, but it is unpleasant to think of using unfortunate victims as an excuse to intervene every time.

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What sacrifice? 4 people wanted to catch fish near Kinmen, then when confronted, instead of saying, "We will not leave because we are Chinese and we have the right to be here," they fled and capsized their own boat. They didn't die for principles; they didn't die with a plan that could possibly have achieved anything. They died for fish. But I guess we're seeing now that the CCP may yet give meaning to their deaths if they can be a catalyst to more salami slicing.

zhangjim said:

This shows that the authorities are still responding to these emergencies with a passive approach, and it seems that I will not see them taking the initiative in the short term. "Everything serves politics,"

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Civilians acting on their own doing crazy stunts do not encompass a government emergency. You're right in that you will not see Chinese forces suddenly act desperately aggressive. Politics means it's a long game.

zhangjim said:

but this strategy is too rigid.

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No, your analysis is too stupid.