PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

aqh

Junior Member
Registered Member
If the US decides to stay 1500 km away from Chinas borders and just loiter around volleying JASSM XRs at PLA targets how can China respond? The only thing I can think of is lobbing YJ 21s back but how much of them does the PLA have (an answer we won't have)
 

bebops

Junior Member
Registered Member
If the US decides to stay 1500 km away from Chinas borders and just loiter around volleying JASSM XRs at PLA targets how can China respond? The only thing I can think of is lobbing YJ 21s back but how much of them does the PLA have (an answer we won't have)

It is a numbers game here. If China has more antimissiles than U.S's missile stockpile, then it shouldn't be a problem.
Next important thing is very good long range radars.

Russia has launched 50-60 cruise missiles salvo to Ukraine in many occasions but they were shot down. Sometimes 1 or 2 missiles get through.. The interception rate is huge.. China needs something like this.. If China can achieve those high interception rate, there is no way U.S can sustain a war this way. U.S is known to produce things very slow. Once their missile supply is exhausted, they will need to wait a long time for replacement. In a war, it cannot wait.

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BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
If the US decides to stay 1500 km away from Chinas borders and just loiter around volleying JASSM XRs at PLA targets how can China respond? The only thing I can think of is lobbing YJ 21s back but how much of them does the PLA have (an answer we won't have)
At their current posture, the USA cannot do that for long. 6 carriers each launching 100 missiles a day means the US would run out of cruise missiles in 15 days. China would suffer around 2000-2500 hits, but that's not much. Even Ukraine absorbed multiples of that.

But yes this is a legitimate concern. China needs to expand its effective anti-shipping range to 4000 km from today's 1500 km. Because of this reason, ASW capabilities (enabling PLAN surface combatants to venture far away), the Type 095 and YY-20U are very important.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
If the US decides to stay 1500 km away from Chinas borders and just loiter around volleying JASSM XRs at PLA targets how can China respond? The only thing I can think of is lobbing YJ 21s back but how much of them does the PLA have (an answer we won't have)
Also DF21, DF17, DF15, CJ100, CJ10 etc. 5000km is safer rather than 1500km where there's a guarantee of being engaged with lots of different stuff.

You'd need a lot of subsonic cm to saturate air defenses if that's the only thing you have.

Closing to relatively close ranges like 1500km is one approach US could use, because they need to generate a breakthrough rather quickly. But it also has significant risks.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
So, in other words, the U. S. can attack whichever targets they choose on the Chinese mainland, yet China must defer to U. S. sensitivities when choosing targets for retaliation?
Wow, I didn’t recognize China for the 2nd rate sovereign that, this reveals, it must certainly, be!
Guess I’ll get my Taiwan Independence Celebration flags, now; ‘cause, it’s obvious, we all know who’s really runnin’ sh!t, huh!
Stop being a schizo. The US is not going to strike China's early-warning system either because that is tantamount to a nuclear attack. Every relevant decision maker knows this. The goal of the US is to win not to commit mutual suicide out of spite.

And stop invoking the Russian experience in Ukraine, it's not a smart gotcha, it just betrays a complete lack of understanding of contemporary power dynamics and inability to critically interpret Russian self-aggrandizing.
 

bebops

Junior Member
Registered Member
I read that China has sold jammers to Russia. Perhaps this is the reason why Western missiles kept missing their targets.

Every missile launchers (even buildings) need a portable jammer or spoof to make them waste missiles.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I would like the learn the Russian Shahed's price, success rate against defended stuff and accuracy. 40 kg is definitely not enough if accuracy is not superb. The Mk-81 was withdrawn from the US service because its effects were found to be not enough. Even the JDAM kit for it was canceled. 125 kg class bombs only returned to the US service in the form of SDBs, a purpose built gliding bomb with a very sophisticated guidance package. The recent ones, in some conditions, achieve a sub-1 m CEP. If the Shahed's accuracy is like 10 meters with that 40 kg payload, then it would be too weak for a lot of things. And if adding some more accurate and jamming-resistant navigation bumps their price to 100k or so, why not just build more CJ-10s then? It would terrain hug at Mach 0.8 and deliver a 500 kg warhead within meters. I would take that over 6-8 Shaheds anytime.

I think Shahed-type ammo is useful within rocket artillery distances. I mean sub-300 km by that. At that distance communications are easy, you don't need to fly for hours over deep enemy territory, etc...

Here is the Harop. The Harpy was among the original loitering munitions and the Harop succeeded it. Man-in-the-loop, good control software, ESM and IR, etc... Limited to 200 km by communications. Costs millions. Israel's concept for kamikaze drones was a bit different. Rather than cheap cruise missiles, they are more like loitering and situation-aware weapons that can be deployed to places where a threat can emerge. No deep strike or facility destruction purposes were considered.
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I think a rudimentary radar altimeter added is possible to allow for terrain hugging flight capabilities. That is much cheaper than TERCOM which requires an altitude map of a specific terrain path, which is much harder to obtain and likely requires much more memory. You can buy a radar altimeter with 0.2 m minimum detection in the <50 m range on Ebay for $300 USD. You can force its orientation to point downwards with a MEMS gyroscope chip which is on the order of $1 USD.

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The advantage of TERCOM is for complex flight paths but you don't need that here, coordinate waypoints for 2D location + altimeter for 3D location is good enough.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
The obsession of cost - benefit trade is also misunderstood. More important than cost trades is production capacity.
That's a good point. Unlike in WW2, most industrial companies can't easily produce high end stuff like planes or missiles anymore. China needs to have a range of simple but effective products that can easily be made by repurposed civilian factories like those of car, electronics or textile manufacturers. That's the highest possible production capacity. Ukraine could be a good model, with their improvised naval drones, grenade dropping FPV drones and the Russian shahed style long range drones. China has enough capacity to produce millions of these per month.

If China wants to, it can launch a million shahed drones and all of Japan (flying over Vladivostok) and the Philippines will be in range. This is not a threat they can defend against and should help deter their involvement in any Taiwan war.

Simple suicide drones, even if not very capable, can be built by anyone if supplied with the engine and electronics. What other weapons are as suited as that for wartime industrial production?
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I read that China has sold jammers to Russia. Perhaps this is the reason why Western missiles kept missing their targets.

Every missile launchers (even buildings) need a portable jammer or spoof to make them waste missiles.

China sold individual electronic components that Russia used to make drone jammers. They never sold the whole package or MSM would’ve cried foul a long time ago.
 
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