PLA Small arms

C

CHNPHD

Junior Member
Registered Member
more info of CS/LS06
stage 1: early prototype
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15 round magazine and 55 round drum buttstock

stage 2: officaly named by QC-9 the project aims to provide the military and police with a new 5.8mm submachine guns and replacing the previous Tokalev 7.62*25 pistol bullet
After failing the bidding（with QCW-05 AKA TYPE 05）, they switched to using 9mm pistol bullets for export or providing them to the police
55 drum from butt changed to 50 and top of the gun
different stock designs：
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fayj1b.jpg
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After being produced with different samples（ The biggest change is the cancellation of 15 pistol magazine） it was finally finalized as CF05/CSLS06
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Aniah

Aniah

Senior Member
Registered Member
CHNPHD said:
As seen in the military parade in Tajikistan
it also has new products with a more fashionable appearance, but the mechanical structure is no different from 20 years ago, just more youthful

After makeup：
View attachment 122847
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Man, it has that future-retro look from the 1980s. Would fit right in with the Terminator franchise. On a funny side note, it kinda resurfaced in popularity in recent years due to a couple of popular Gacha games having this gun.
 
O

ohan_qwe

Junior Member
sheen said:
If I recall, one of the gun YouTube channel tested plastic cased ammo and found them to be quite subpar. I think it was Military Arms Channel. In ways such that the downsides, while not detrimental for usage, were definitely not worth the benefits (if there were even any) to switch to using it. And I think he did mention they were also quite the expensive ammo.

And honestly IMO, better off with just using the good ol' steel cartridges.

Edit: yeah it was this channel
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The biggest downside is the price which he said should be lower if it's mass produced and if anyone could mass order ammo it's PLA. The primer problem isn't related to polymer. Not usable in fluted chamber is fine for China. The reload problem is also an civilian problem.

There is 20% weight savings which isn't as important for civilians but important for military.

As an engineer he is just wrong about heat in chamber. He thinks the chamber produces heat that the brass transfers out which is completely wrong. The burning powder produces heat that is transfered to the chamber by the case.
 
J

J.Whitman

New Member
Registered Member
plawolf said:
I think lessons from Ukraine will fundamentally shape the medium term development direction of all major militaries around the world. I don’t think anyone from Ukraine is particularly bothered about having magic rounds that can punch through level 4 plate at 400m+ ranges, principally since it would be incredibly rare for line infantry to get an opportunity to even have a crack at targets at that range.

You go plinking away trying to play CoD in real life and you rapidly end up with 2-3 sniper rounds smearing your brains all over the trench.

For long range anti heavy-infantry work, China seems way ahead of the curve with its man-portable mini-missile launchers, since a lot of the time both sides end up using ATGMs at exposed enemy infantry at extended ranges.

The US 6.8 seems the ultimate in fighting-the-last-war silliness, which seems to have been developed after fighting farmers in Afghanistan for a decade and deciding the next war is going to be exactly the same, only opfor is going to be PLA with ballistic plates, but everything else is exactly the same as fighting farmers.
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Prehaps but as this is a small arms thread.

If you look at Western manufacturer like FN, Walther, Ruger, Glock, H&K, Sig Sauer, Beretta, CZ, S&W, Steyr, Carcal (Western designers but owned by UAE) and so on they come up with new modern striker-fired pistols. In 2023 FN is launching the new striker-fired pistol named FN HiPer. China on the other hand may come with new Anti-Air Gun-Missile System like PGL-625

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..but building a pistol like Glock or CZ P-10C seem to be impossible. Why?
 
BoraTas

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
J.Whitman said:
Prehaps but as this is a small arms thread.

If you look at Western manufacturer like FN, Walther, Ruger, Glock, H&K, Sig Sauer, Beretta, CZ, S&W, Steyr, Carcal (Western designers but owned by UAE) and so on they come up with new modern striker-fired pistols. In 2023 FN is launching the new striker-fired pistol named FN HiPer. China on the other hand may come with new Anti-Air Gun-Missile System like PGL-625

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

..but building a pistol like Glock or CZ P-10C seem to be impossible. Why?
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Same as reciprocating charging handles on standard-issue rifles. Force-level preferences... Striker vs hammer is really like Coca-Cola vs Pepsi. Handguns with strikers tend to be cheaper, smaller and lighter. Guns with exposed hammers tend to have better triggers and have their cockedness visible. The latter is likely what pushed PLA to have them on their standard-issue pistols. They probably decided that exposed hammers make handguns safer. China produces striker guns too, though. Look no further than the QSZ-193, a PLA-adopted subcompact pistol. Size constraint makes striker attractive here.
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LawLeadsToPeace

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
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J.Whitman said:
Prehaps but as this is a small arms thread.

If you look at Western manufacturer like FN, Walther, Ruger, Glock, H&K, Sig Sauer, Beretta, CZ, S&W, Steyr, Carcal (Western designers but owned by UAE) and so on they come up with new modern striker-fired pistols. In 2023 FN is launching the new striker-fired pistol named FN HiPer. China on the other hand may come with new Anti-Air Gun-Missile System like PGL-625

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

..but building a pistol like Glock or CZ P-10C seem to be impossible. Why?
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First and foremost, the Chinese do have a compact striker-fired pistol that is known as the QSZ 193. Secondly, in regards to the plethora and diversity of pistols that are present in the West, in particular the US, and not so in China, that is due to supply and demand. There isn't a large firearm or even individual PPE market for civilians (even law enforcement) or military.
 
J

J.Whitman

New Member
Registered Member
LawLeadsToPeace said:
First and foremost, the Chinese do have a compact striker-fired pistol that is known as the QSZ 193. Secondly, in regards to the plethora and diversity of pistols that are present in the West, in particular the US, and not so in China, that is due to supply and demand. There isn't a large firearm or even individual PPE market for civilians (even law enforcement) or military.
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I´m aware of this but we talk about China here - one of the world´s most technically sophisticated countries. The United States has Ruger, Remington and S&W. Compare that to Germany (H&K, Sig Sauer, Walther), Austria (Glock and Steyr), Italy (Beretta), Belgium (FN), Czech Republic (CZ), Brazil (Taurus, UAE (Caracal), Croatia (HS) and so on. I mean how difficult can it be for China to make a sleak striker-fired pistol like CZ P10C? Just look at FN latest pistol;


..and compare that one to the QSZ-193. I mean China should be able to do better. Besides, there is market outside the United States for cheap firearms of reasonable quality.

BoraTas said:
Same as reciprocating charging handles on standard-issue rifles. Force-level preferences... Striker vs hammer is really like Coca-Cola vs Pepsi. Handguns with strikers tend to be cheaper, smaller and lighter. Guns with exposed hammers tend to have better triggers and have their cockedness visible. The latter is likely what pushed PLA to have them on their standard-issue pistols. They probably decided that exposed hammers make handguns safer. China produces striker guns too, though. Look no further than the QSZ-193, a PLA-adopted subcompact pistol. Size constraint makes striker attractive here.
View attachment 122883
Click to expand...
I know that China make striker-fired pistols. The QSZ-193 look no doubt outdated and sloppy. Just look at the rifles QBZ-95, QBZ-191 and CS/LS7. These are modern rifles and so one could think that China could make a competitive pistol like those made by H&K, Sig Sauer, Walther, Glock, Steyr, FN, Beretta or CZ. None of these brands are American brands. There is a market outside of the United States and it´s not like small arms like pistols and rifles use highly sensitive technology. Firearms are straight-forward and much is just about product-design in terms of esthetics, function, reliability, weight and some minor innovations. Glocks has looked almost the same since 1979 with some slight modernization. China should be able to make a competitive pistol. I guess they are working on it.
 
BoraTas

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
J.Whitman said:
I´m aware of this but we talk about China here - one of the world´s most technically sophisticated countries. The United States has Ruger, Remington and S&W. Compare that to Germany (H&K, Sig Sauer, Walther), Austria (Glock and Steyr), Italy (Beretta), Belgium (FN), Czech Republic (CZ), Brazil (Taurus, UAE (Caracal), Croatia (HS) and so on. I mean how difficult can it be for China to make a sleak striker-fired pistol like CZ P10C? Just look at FN latest pistol;


..and compare that one to the QSZ-193. I mean China should be able to do better. Besides, there is market outside the United States for cheap firearms of reasonable quality.


I know that China make striker-fired pistols. The QSZ-193 look no doubt outdated and sloppy. Just look at the rifles QBZ-95, QBZ-191 and CS/LS7. These are modern rifles and so one could think that China could make a competitive pistol like those made by H&K, Sig Sauer, Walther, Glock, Steyr, FN, Beretta or CZ. None of these brands are American brands. There is a market outside of the United States and it´s not like small arms like pistols and rifles use highly sensitive technology. Firearms are straight-forward and much is just about product-design in terms of esthetics, function, reliability, weight and some minor innovations. Glocks has looked almost the same since 1979 with some slight modernization. China should be able to make a competitive pistol. I guess they are working on it.
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I don't see why they would replace their current pistols unless there is something wrong with them. They are perfectly useful products that satisfy what you would expect from a pistol.
Exports wise, you are right. Small arms exporters have surprisingly high profit margins. But China doesn't focus much on exporting weapons in general. The reason for that could be argued on for pages.
 
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