PLA Small arms

TerraN_EmpirE said:

That's a major reason why only three have gone anywhere beyond concepts and mockups. Most of those with some degree of designing one skipped it and tried to look instead at modifying there 40mm rounds.

Of course the Type 05 is an odd ball weapon.
The point of a PDW is a weapon for specialists. A weapon that can be used one handed well treating a wounded soldier or driving a truck or some other tasks. That generally is willing to trade off range for compactness
Yet the PLA already had that in the QBZ95 short barrel version which we almost never see.
I mean if they were issuing QBZ03 across the board then type 05 makes more sense.

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The 05 is generally used as a specialist suppressed weapon rather than as a PDW.

Other than a very few photos, and all from many years back, I cannot recall any suppressor use on 95s in recent times.

Most likely the PLA has concluded after trials that suppressors on rifles with supersonic standard ammo just doesn’t really offer much tactically useful sound suppression to be worth the cost and weight of widely issuing suppressors on the 95.

In fact I don’t think the PLA fields PDWs as such, since the 95 is already compact enough.

plawolf said:

The 05 is generally used as a specialist suppressed weapon rather than as a PDW.

Other than a very few photos, and all from many years back, I cannot recall any suppressor use on 95s in recent times.

Most likely the PLA has concluded after trials that suppressors on rifles with supersonic standard ammo just doesn’t really offer much tactically useful sound suppression to be worth the cost and weight of widely issuing suppressors on the 95.

In fact I don’t think the PLA fields PDWs as such, since the 95 is already compact enough.

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Isn't the USMC currently leading the charge of making suppressors general issue? Then again, QBZ95 never designed with quick-detachable suppressor to begin with anyway.



QBZ95-1 does have suppressor designed but were not issued.

Onto other things...QCW05 is too long as a PDW, if we go by the typical compactness of PDWs, it's more carbine sized deal. Unscrew the suppressor (which is matched to the gun by serial number, doesn't seems to be modular per se) and it will be short enough, but when talk about MP7A1 kind of compact...well, no, at least nothing of such in service.

The carbine version of QBZ95-1, QBZ95B-1, like the QBZ95B, typically found with the navy.

Something tells me that Chinese military think of rifles as the "go loud only" deal, suppressors are used as pistol-calibre platform only. I wonder if the past 2 decades of use gave them any new insights, and to be reflected in the rumoured new AR series that said to be début this year.

MwRYum said:

Isn't the USMC currently leading the charge of making suppressors general issue? Then again, QBZ95 never designed with quick-detachable suppressor to begin with anyway.

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The US Army is also heavy in it to. General issue has a number of advantages.
Especially in CQB. But also in long range ambush.

Posted by "OedoSoldier" on Twitter:




According to him, this is the cartridge for the PLA's next-generation rifle, and that both the rifle and the cartridge will be "released" soon.

When you have general issued suppressors for rifles, it still does not eliminate the supersonic crack of the round flying through the air and around your target unless you provide troops with both high velocity and subsonic rifle ammunition.

This may be motive for the PLA to avoid general issue of suppressors for rifles. And most if not all issued SMGs are seen suppressed, with perhaps matched subsonic ammunition.

Although the fact does remain that suppressors definitely help to some extent conceal muzzle flash and the audible direction of incoming fire even in supersonic rounds, maybe the PLA don't think that advantage is large enough to consider.

Plus I have seen quite a few circumstances where certain member of an infantry section or platoon, the CO, Section commanders and team leaders carry a QBZ 95-1 as well as a QCW-05 as a secondary weapon, on top of a handgun for a sidearm.

I guess there are doctrinal choices at play here, with the PLA not having fought any large scale conflict in many decades, any flaws in their current doctrine will become clear and they will adapt from their future experiences.

Also not sure if the QCW-05 would count as a PDW, it has available supersonic and subsonic ammo as well as a significant 50 round magazine. I have seen PLA medics carry them as primary on exercise and on foreign deployments.

Sunbud said:

Also not sure if the QCW-05 would count as a PDW, it has available supersonic and subsonic ammo as well as a significant 50 round magazine. I have seen PLA medics carry them as primary on exercise and on foreign deployments.

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QCW is too big for PDW even with its suppressor detached, it's still a SMG.

SinoSoldier said:

Posted by "OedoSoldier" on Twitter:
View attachment 50827
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According to him, this is the cartridge for the PLA's next-generation rifle, and that both the rifle and the cartridge will be "released" soon.

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The wordings on the box somehow hinted that such cartridge is not the final product, or likely the photos are taken when it's still in the trial phase.

Evidence:
1st box - denote model number and other information as per standard, but the words in bracket before the "steel" I do not know it was shorthand from what.
2nd box - no proper model designation or dimension, wording indicates it's a trial batch of certain design iteration
3rd box - the same, but this one calls it "batch 18-1 new model cartridge"...

For both 2nd and 3rd, they denote "DBeF-3/1" as designation for the gunpowder type used. That means the new ammo(?) R&D involves the new gunpowder formula?

MwRYum said:

The wordings on the box somehow hinted that such cartridge is not the final product, or likely the photos are taken when it's still in the trial phase.

Evidence:
1st box - denote model number and other information as per standard, but the words in bracket before the "steel" I do not know it was shorthand from what.
2nd box - no proper model designation or dimension, wording indicates it's a trial batch of certain design iteration
3rd box - the same, but this one calls it "batch 18-1 new model cartridge"...

For both 2nd and 3rd, they denote "DBeF-3/1" as designation for the gunpowder type used. That means the new ammo(?) R&D involves the new gunpowder formula?

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Yeah I'm not sure about that at all, especially with the wording and whatnot.

On CJDBY there is a photo of a supposedly new cartridge variant with both the projectile and casing made of entirely copper.

Sunbud said:

When you have general issued suppressors for rifles, it still does not eliminate the supersonic crack of the round flying through the air and around your target unless you provide troops with both high velocity and subsonic rifle ammunition.

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Subsonic however gives up on range and penitration.
This is why it's more specialized. When silent is the want you have to go to a highly specialized round more and more.

The main goal for more general issue is not to make General soldiers silent but

Sunbud said:

suppressors definitely help to some extent conceal muzzle flash and the audible direction of incoming fire even in supersonic rounds

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It also reduces the sound over pressure in close quarters making it less likely to deafen soldiers in urban fighting.
At longer ranges supersonic from suppressed works. It keeps the signature down making It harder for enemy forces to identify where they are being shot from.

If you have been following western trends you should note the rise of .300BLK which is a whisper quiet ammo type being used increasingly by Special forces. And that more and more SF suppressed rifles are shifting from quick attach to built in.
Where as this isn't happening with western infantry. What is is simple addition of supressors.
It's still loud.

Sunbud said:

QBZ 95-1 as well as a QCW-05 as a secondary weapon, on top of a handgun for a sidearm.

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This leads to my confusion. What are they thinking here? You guys seem insistent that it's not a PDW. Okay then. But why triple up? Especially in open field battle? If it's urban maybe a reason maybe. But from zero meters to 400meters the rifle is the better weapon. Suppressed subsonic doesn't go far. Suppressed pistol doesn't either. I see that and think that's a half dozen magazines or a radio or other but bit of kit left behind.

MwRYum said:

QCW is too big for PDW even with its suppressor detached, it's still a SMG.

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I disagree with that It's actually shorter in length than the FN P90 (minus supressor) And lighter. The only exception is with the addition of a magazine which would make it larger vertically. But that's not a big deal. Add an optical sight to P90 tri-rail and they are back to very close.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

This leads to my confusion. What are they thinking here? You guys seem insistent that it's not a PDW. Okay then. But why triple up? Especially in open field battle? If it's urban maybe a reason maybe. But from zero meters to 400meters the rifle is the better weapon. Suppressed subsonic doesn't go far. Suppressed pistol doesn't either. I see that and think that's a half dozen magazines or a radio or other but bit of kit left behind.

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Recon