PLA Small arms

Insignius

Junior Member
The 05 is a specialized weapon with subsonic ammo. Why the hell would they want the QTS-11 to have subsonic ammo? And pistol rounds at that? How is that indicating any sort of "lack of confidence"?Just because America doesnt have something like this for various reasons (just like a naval railgun), doesnt mean that it cant work.

And as for bulkiness, it really isnt. Compare that to the XM-25 or the original XM-29, or even the K-11. The QTS-11 is incredibly compact for an OICW.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Looks like a type 05 suppressed PDW in his hip. That does seem a bit much.

If you look at the second photo, you can see the barrel of a third rifle sticking out behind his helmet.

He also has a sidearm, and I would not be surprise if he also has a second handgun in an ankle holster as well at this rate.

Only thing I can figure is for some reason they can't mount a suppressor on the QST11 so they doubled up. Or gulp... dare I say... perhaps they are not confident in the QST11 ?

I wouldn’t read too much into this, as it is obviously not a real loadout, and the guy is probably messing around carrying as many guns as he could get his hands on.

Or it’s some kind variation of your standard 3 gun, only he is running with 3 rifles, and handgun and a grenade launcher.

You're kidding right?
Length wise it's about the norm for a conventional rifle but hight wise it's quite bulky.

It’s by far the most compact of any of its contemporaries, and weights not much more than a standard AR with an underslung 40mm tube.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The 05 is a specialized weapon with subsonic ammo. Why the hell would they want the QTS-11 to have subsonic ammo? And pistol rounds at that?
Cool your head a bit.
  1. Most modern military assault rifles do have subsonic ammo available to them. Without resorting to pistol caliber
  2. Just because it's suppressed doesn't mean it's limited to subsonic ammo. In urban terrain a suppressor can reduce the echo effects of cuncosive sound. Firing an assault class rifle in close quarters is loud and is known for causing deafness. A suppressor can reduce that even with super sonic ammo.
  3. Among concepts for the XM29, The first of the OICW prototypes was replacing the carbine portion in 5.56x45mm with a MP7 variant in 4.6x30mm the idea being a compact platform with reduced weight.
How is that indicating any sort of "lack of confidence"?Just because America doesnt have something like this for various reasons
I was referring to doubling up the weapons. You have two automatic carbines on one soldier. That's excessive.
And the US military did for a number of years have a weapon of this class. The XM29 was found wanting. As a result they broke it into two weapons the XM8 carbine that was pushed for a replacement of M16 yet wasn't needed. And the XM25 that had issues of weight and eventually collapsed due to infighting and development of 40mm grenade rounds that have the same capabilities.
If you look at the second photo, you can see the barrel of a third rifle sticking out behind his helmet.

He also has a sidearm, and I would not be surprise if he also has a second handgun in an ankle holster as well at this rate
I am not sold on a tertiary weapon I think that's an antenna for a radio. The QST11 is almost always seen with lots of digital kit.
And as for bulkiness, it really isnt. Compare that to the XM-25 or the original XM-29, or even the K-11. The QTS-11 is incredibly compact for an OICW
I would put it on par with the K11 although the magazine would add a little. Still compared to a assault rifle it is a large package perhaps not in
It’s by far the most compact of any of its contemporaries, and weights not much more than a standard AR with an underslung 40mm tube
weight but size. It's not quite "Starship troopers fully automatic Morita" but not far either.
I wouldn’t read too much into this, as it is obviously not a real loadout, and the guy is probably messing around carrying as many guns as he could get his hands on.

Or it’s some kind variation of your standard 3 gun, only he is running with 3 rifles, and handgun and a grenade launcher
The point of that would be ridiculous in any form.
The point of the OICW concept is one weapon that allows the user not to need a secondary. It was to mate the ability of a semi auto grenade launcher with a PDW type capabilities. Adding a second and then third weapon to that is not serious.
As you already have two types of ammunition now a third with the Type 05. Each type of ammo reduces the total of any type available. And each additional weapon reduces the total farther. Ounces equal pounds and pounds equals pain. This soldier isn't wearing an exoskeleton to what he carries is limited to what his body can put up with.
I agree having that Type 05 on his hip is a WTF?! Already, but then adding even more? Is beyond silly. Bordering on parody.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
I would personally not take too much stock in the set up of that soldier in question. Considering that most Chinese media put more stock in "bling" than actual realism, I did wager that the soldier's weaponry is more of a rather badly thought out promo. It is like seeing a redneck decked out like the terminator, despite the impracticality of it.
It would seem that the QTS-11 is facing the same problem as all OICW type weapon is facing, that is the increase of combat weight for a questionable increase in combat effectiveness. The removal of the grenade magazine and the autoloading system reduces the weight, but also reduces the rate of fire.
 

MwRYum

Major
Got the show in question, the shooting event starts at 3:35.

Summary for those who don't understand Chinese:
This is basically a time trial gauntlet with showcasing multiple handheld firearms from far to the close quarter, the troopers running the gauntlet carries the following:
QBZ95-1 assault rifle
QCW05 SMG
QSZ92 Pistol
Bayonet gun (those that pack 4 pistol shots in the grip type)

Everything else from QBU10, QBU88, QST11, "cornershot", QBS09 SG, QJB95 SAW...all pick up at their respective checkpoint, with limited ammo already loading in magazine (5 rounds, by what the narration said), engage targets which some of them presented themsevles only for 3 seconds or so.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Okay now it makes sense. Although that load out
QBZ95-1 assault rifle
QCW05 SMG
QSZ92 Pistol
Bayonet gun
is still very "call of duty"
would seem that the QTS-11 is facing the same problem as all OICW type weapon is facing, that is the increase of combat weight for a questionable increase in combat effectiveness. The removal of the grenade magazine and the autoloading system reduces the weight, but also reduces the rate of fire.

The main issue with OICW has never been rate of fire. It's weight and bulk.
 

MwRYum

Major
I would personally not take too much stock in the set up of that soldier in question. Considering that most Chinese media put more stock in "bling" than actual realism, I did wager that the soldier's weaponry is more of a rather badly thought out promo. It is like seeing a redneck decked out like the terminator, despite the impracticality of it.
It would seem that the QTS-11 is facing the same problem as all OICW type weapon is facing, that is the increase of combat weight for a questionable increase in combat effectiveness. The removal of the grenade magazine and the autoloading system reduces the weight, but also reduces the rate of fire.
In view of the later part of the show which showcase an attack on an enemy-held position, the real loadout they go about for real will be just one main and one side arm.

Rate of fire for the grenade isn't the issue, as it was intended to be a precision tool.
Okay now it makes sense. Although that load out

is still very "call of duty"
And in COD, it's still one main and one secondary put a "special kit" - which the bayonet gun most likely falls under the "specical kit". In other words, even by COD terms they pack one more gun.

The main issue with OICW has never been rate of fire. It's weight and bulk.
Indeed, the air-burst munition is a precision kit, it was not intended to dump down onto the target in quantity. Nevertheless, pairing the necessary control unit, semi-auto firing mechanism and magazine, makes the OICW unavoidably bulky, which is what you get when you put 2 guns into one piece.
 
Last edited:

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
And in COD, it's still one main and one secondary put a "special kit" - which the bayonet gun most likely falls under the "specical kit". In other words, even by COD terms they pack one more gun
By my count four. As I doubt you can shoot the bayonet well mounted.
Personally I think ballistic knives are only really good for impressing Noobs with how much of a Chuck Norris you are. It's a waste of a knife and ammo.
Still my point it's the kind of load out from a video game that doesn't bother with considering the weight of the weapons or How Much ammo is traded off.
If you have a PDW why a carbine? You can have the pistol with with either fine. But all three?
Rate of fire for the grenade isn't the issue, as it was intended to be a precision tool.
Well within a bit of reason. It was supposed to be able to kill anything in a room or within a couple meters of burst.
Still that portion of the weapon was meant to replace a M203 or comparable under barrel single shot.
The portion that is designed for rate of fire really in the cases of the three system XM29, K11 And QST11 are all pretty close to each other and wouldn't differ that much all are or were short stroke piston operated assault rifles in the 5-6mm class.
 

MwRYum

Major
By my count four. As I doubt you can shoot the bayonet well mounted.
Personally I think ballistic knives are only really good for impressing Noobs with how much of a Chuck Norris you are. It's a waste of a knife and ammo.
Still my point it's the kind of load out from a video game that doesn't bother with considering the weight of the weapons or How Much ammo is traded off.
If you have a PDW why a carbine? You can have the pistol with with either fine. But all three?
And even by computer game norm, it's either consider cheating or over-load.
Well within a bit of reason. It was supposed to be able to kill anything in a room or within a couple meters of burst.
Still that portion of the weapon was meant to replace a M203 or comparable under barrel single shot.
The portion that is designed for rate of fire really in the cases of the three system XM29, K11 And QST11 are all pretty close to each other and wouldn't differ that much all are or were short stroke piston operated assault rifles in the 5-6mm class.
Air burst munition employed by OICW are designed to be more precise than those of normal 35/40mm rifle grenades fired from under-barrel or standalone launcher. It's size and loadout actually more specialised at certain task, means it's far less versatile than the likes of current 35/40mm rifle grenades.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Air burst munition employed by OICW are designed to be more precise than those of normal 35/40mm rifle grenades fired from under-barrel or standalone launcher. It's size and loadout actually more specialised at certain task, means it's far less versatile than the likes of current 35/40mm rifle grenades.
That's a major reason why only three have gone anywhere beyond concepts and mockups. Most of those with some degree of designing one skipped it and tried to look instead at modifying there 40mm rounds.
And even by computer game norm, it's either consider cheating or over-load.
Of course the Type 05 is an odd ball weapon.
The point of a PDW is a weapon for specialists. A weapon that can be used one handed well treating a wounded soldier or driving a truck or some other tasks. That generally is willing to trade off range for compactness
Yet the PLA already had that in the QBZ95 short barrel version which we almost never see.
I mean if they were issuing QBZ03 across the board then type 05 makes more sense.
 
Top