PLA Small arms
- Thread starter Vanguard1688
- Start date
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
well sinoSCAR H seems to be coming along. Note M-LOK style slots no Key mod. Clearly this is a 7.62 version in DMR configuration.A few more high-resolution images from Zhuhai...
SinoSCAR L more the Pmag or clone there in. This is a short barreled version. Again M-Lok style slots.
back to rails very MP5 UMP9.
did they licence the PKP Pecheneg? If not this is DAMN close.Last batch...
This is the spitting image of the Accuracy international AX AICS save for the stock module.
by78
General
Not damn close, it's identical. It is the Pecheneg.
That's a photo of the Russian small arms booth at Zhuhai. I hadn't looked carefully before posting it.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I thought it was a little to close for comfort.
With a short stroke gas piston system extracting above the charging handle, wouldn't the CS/LR17 be closer to a type81 than a scar?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Operationally yes. However the objective of the CS/LR17 is the same.as the SCAR. That is A modular weapon in light (assault rifle) and Heavy (Battle rifle)configurations.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Let's take a moment and review what variants we have seen of the CS/LR17
Light variants / FN SCARL Mk16
Caliber 5.56x45mm NAR556
Caliber 7.62x39mm NAR739
Caliber 7.62x51mm (heavy) NAR751
Mk.16 SCAR L
Mk17 7.62x51mm NATO
And bonus
I suspect that in the near future Norinco will try to add a PDW variant to the 556 And 739 versions but not 751 although there have been some SBR 7.62x51mm really below 16 inches it's "why bother" zone. I mean yeah they went to 13 inches in the Scar and presumably NAR751 but it's just ridiculous. 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm are fair in a barrel 9 inches or less. Existing systems like the HK G36C, K1A or Zastava M92 show it can be done and has a role albeit very close ranges.
It seems likely that the CS/LR17
could be the basis of The rumored next QBZ. If so than it's likely we will see a SC,CQC, Carbine versions in 5.8x42mm. A "NAR58"
Light variants / FN SCARL Mk16
Caliber 5.56x45mm NAR556
- Model 556/CQC
- Model 556/S Standard carbine.
- Model 556/HB heavy barrel DMR
- Model 556/LMG infantry automatic rifle.
Caliber 7.62x39mm NAR739
- Model 739/CQC
- Model 739/S carbine.
- Model 739/LMG
Caliber 7.62x51mm (heavy) NAR751
- Model 751/CQC
- Model 751/S
- Model 751/HB DMR
- Model 751/LMG (pseudo GPMG)
- Under barrel grenade launcher module.
Mk.16 SCAR L
- SCAR SC Sub Compact (previously called PDW) 6.5-7.3 inch barrel with MP5A2 style stock.
- Mk.16 CQB 10 inch barrel Scar.
- Mk.16 STD standard carbine 14 inch barrel.
- Mk.16 HB 18 inch barrel intended as a DMR.
- HAMR Heat Adaptive Modular Rifle. Offered for USMC IAR. Failed. neat feature it fired open bolt on auto closed on semi.
- FN Advanced Carbine. U.S. Army Individual carbine failed program.
- Mk.17 SCAR H 7.62x31mm prototype, never produced.
Mk17 7.62x51mm NATO
- Mk.17 CQB 13 inch
- Mk.17 Standard 16 inch barrel version.
- Mk.17 long barrel 20 inch. Would evolve into Mk20.
- Mk.20 Semi auto Sniper Rifle. Fixed stock 20 inch barrel rifle. A number of sub variants including FN SCAR-H PR and FN SCAR-H TPR.
And bonus
- Mk.13 40mm Under barrel grenade launcher module.
I suspect that in the near future Norinco will try to add a PDW variant to the 556 And 739 versions but not 751 although there have been some SBR 7.62x51mm really below 16 inches it's "why bother" zone. I mean yeah they went to 13 inches in the Scar and presumably NAR751 but it's just ridiculous. 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm are fair in a barrel 9 inches or less. Existing systems like the HK G36C, K1A or Zastava M92 show it can be done and has a role albeit very close ranges.
It seems likely that the CS/LR17
could be the basis of The rumored next QBZ. If so than it's likely we will see a SC,CQC, Carbine versions in 5.8x42mm. A "NAR58"
When CS/LR17 first emerged I suggested that it was probably related to the new service rifle that was meant to be modular in nature.
At this point I'm doubtful that the new service rifle would merely be a CS/LR17 variant chambered for 5.8mm, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were significant similarities in terms of overall design and modularity.
For CS/LR17 specifically, I've floated the idea that it may have been derived from one of the presumably rejected designs that the PLA may have trialled for the new service rifle.
In any case, I think CS/LR17 has some similarities with both SCAR and HK416/7 with the modularity of both designs and presumably a similar action, while having a folding stock that SCAR also has and which HK416/7 lacks, and having a forward handguard design more similar to HK416/7. And of course the full length noon rail, a free floated barrel in the forward handguard, side mount options, etc, are all reflective of overall international assault rifle trends.
If the new service rifle has those same features as CS/LR17 and is widely adopted it should prove to be a fine service rifle that finally gives the PLA a much more ergonomic and optics friendly rifle, a Sino-HK416 almost (but presumably cheaper and without a few of the more fancy bells and whistles)
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
a logical assessment at the time and today HK XM8, Magpul ACR, Barretta ARX160 Sig MCX And even the then AK12.
the rail system is clearly export oriented. The hype we have heard them talk of reminds me of FN SCAR but also the HK XM8.
possible or parallel like how the U.S. Army had the XM8 well Socom was working on the SCAR.
HK416 And HK417 is modular in the same vain as the AR15. Which is more a product of aftermarket. I mean HK eventually offered a HKey rail system but most of it was simply taking the proven parts of the AR15 mating it with Tuetonic engineering ironically including the AR18, and synergizing the HK grenade launcher model.
The scaling up to AR10. It has however had some issues going beyond The 2007 vintage design.
SCAR had a bit more modular features. In an AR15 or 416 to change barrels you need a vice and lots of tools. To separate the barrel from the receiver.
In SCAR an armorer with a few tools can do it. It's a lot simpler. The stock is a product of the AR design it's one of the choices Stoner made.
The buffer tube assembly allows room for the BCG to slow down and loose energy in the opening of the cycle. As the BCG retracts into tube this aids in softening recoil but giving up on folding. Folding by contrast means a more compact weapon for storage well riding in compact spaces like inside an IFV, helicopter or more.
Bltizo, on a Sino-HK416 I think you are chasing the wrong end game. Although the M27 variant has acheaved wider issue. HK416 is not really a universal rifle. It's being issued as one by the French and Norwegians but the vast majority of users field it as a Special Forces weapon.
I mean Germany the home of HK. When they started the recent G36 replacement program didn't just take up HK416. HK started HK443.
Not because HK was worried about reliability or function but as they seemed it to specialized and not economical for the end goal.
416 is like a Mercedes Benz Luxury SUV, top of the line German engineering. But nothing it does can't be matched by a lower price vehicle. The later can even outperform in the right circumstances. In trials of early XM855A1 HK' s BCG suffered vs M4A1. Most of those were due to the high pressure rounds on the short stroke piston.
Trails of late with midlength gas systems have done even better.
What the PLA will need is is a weapon designed to offer modern modular construction with both the advantages that SCAR and HK416 actually lack. Cost and ease production. HK416 And SCAR are very accurate and reliable weapons but there cost points leave something to be desired.
Fun fact: at the end of the Second world war The US and other nations studied the STG40 The rifle that we consider the mother of the Assault rifle. The US decided it was crude and cheap and rejected it on those. Ironically two of its stronger points.
It used stamped parts an kept the real high quality work for the barrel and bolt.