PLA next/6th generation fighter thread

[no_name]

My two cents: I see that the future generation of fighter jet will be extremely smart rather than having higher speed and heavier weapon load than current generation. AI is definitely a main feature, stealth, endurance, environment awareness and self-defense will be enhanced too.

One impression I wish the next gen fighter jet will have is that when the pilot is unconscious, the aircraft would automatically fly back to base, and AI will check up pilot's injury condition, eject munition that might endanger the landing and send the data to control tower before landing.

Another would be the aircraft has realtime data feed from satellites, AWACS, ground forces, weather station etc, and the AI would process the info and pass a solution to the pilot.

If AI can save either the pilot or the successful completion of an important mission how would it choose?

My guess would be that it would not be blamed for saving the pilot since if the pilot is incapacitated normally it would result in mission failure anyway. Still it might be tempting.

 

[Blitzo]

If there's no news or guided speculation, I don't think there's a reason for us to wildly speculate for our own interests.

We've had multiple pages in this thread and dozens of pages in past threads in past years, about this matter, so unless there's specific PLA related next generation fighter speculation or discussions I don't think we need to do this again.

Let's have some discipline folks

 

[Index]

Even if China is 10 years behind NGAD, I don't think it matters. 6th gen planes are the least impressive generation in my view. What is stopping J-20 from having most of the capabilities that 6th gen planes are supposed to have?

* Optional unmanned flying? Purely software and sensor capabilities that can be added to even current J-20s
* Directing drones? Already being added to J-20 two seater
* Better radar or avionics? can be added J-20 variant

There are 2 advantages that 6th gen is bringing that J-20 cannot have.

Tailless design which is supposed to be more stealthy. But this could have drawbacks like much less manuverability. Moreover, anti-Stealth tech is also developing fast. Radars that can detect stealth is developing, using AI to direct missiles using general direction of the plane before autonomous targetting might be coming in the future. So, I don't think adding even more stealth is going to be that gamechanger in the future.

Finally variable cycle engines, okay its more efficient and uses less fuel. J-20 already has more than enough range. Is even more range that big of a game changer? No.


Overall, I am not that impressed with 6th gen planes. They r not that of a big deal compared to the gap between 4th gen vs 5th gen. Manned planes lobbing missile at each other is already getting obsolete. The future could be all about unmanned drones fighting more and more sophisticated SAMs. Fighter planes are going to be obsolete in the future in my view.

Hence, China and US seem to have different definitions of what a 6th gen should be.

I'm of the opinion 6th gen will have hypersonic flight capabilities and blurring the boundaries between fighter/bomber and also between airplane/spaceplane. It's likely to finally put the strategic in strategic airforce.

This seems to be China's line. While US wants something that is essentially a slightly better 2 seat J-20A, that is, any random stealth plane with drone integration and long range.

It's probably much harder for China to achieve it's vision, and given the penchant towards marketing over function from the US side, it is possible they will be the first to create a "6th gen", but it will not fulfil the kind of never before seen capability China considers as 6th generation.

 

[ougoah]

At hypersonic speeds there will be no more dog fights. There may even be no more plane-on-plane intercepts and traditional intercepts. And the focus may shift from undetectable to uninterceptable, both the platform and the ordnance that it is carrying.

It may even replace or largely complement the role of ICBMs, to such an extent that it will not be used against territories of nuclear-retaliatory capable nations, due to possibility of intent being misjudged. But it may be used against other actors and as area denial platforms.

Ideally a 6th gen platform will be able to take off like normal plane and have a certain degree of stealth so that it will not be detected by early warning systems the same way that ICBMs would. Then at supersonic speed and high altitudes it switches to hypersonic engine for hypersonic flight. At this point stealth degradation is not so much of an issue due to speed and altitude and changeable trajectory, neither will it be important for return leg. Once it is detected at hypersonic flight profile it is already too late for the other party to intercept.

Maybe for 7th gen. No one has a manned hypersonic fighter sized aircraft at the moment. If the argument is that fighter evolution is changing so much the next generations will be so different as to not require maneuverability, we'll see hypersonic manned strategic bombers or strike aircraft long before these platforms become the next "fighters" lobbing A2A at each other. There is just much more value in having manned hypersonic strike/bombers to target much higher value sea and ground targets than relatively less expensive and important aircraft.

If that becomes the case, there really is not need to even make them manned anymore. Just have hypersonic drones perform those tasks wherever possible. It's not easy to support a pilot and have a pilot function reliably at those speeds.

My two cents: I see that the future generation of fighter jet will be extremely smart rather than having higher speed and heavier weapon load than current generation. AI is definitely a main feature, stealth, endurance, environment awareness and self-defense will be enhanced too.

One impression I wish the next gen fighter jet will have is that when the pilot is unconscious, the aircraft would automatically fly back to base, and AI will check up pilot's injury condition, eject munition that might endanger the landing and send the data to control tower before landing.

Another would be the aircraft has realtime data feed from satellites, AWACS, ground forces, weather station etc, and the AI would process the info and pass a solution to the pilot.

AI copilots are already on various fighter aircraft around the world. We know Su-35 has some form of onboard AI "assistant" called "duel" and no doubt China has implemented some at least at trial stages given China's vast expertise in the AI field. Wouldn't rule out the possibility AI assistants optimise work for F-35 pilots either.

AI won't be a defining feature since it can be upgraded to basically any platform with enough computing to support.

 

[latenlazy]

I see that a lot of people are interested in science fiction.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Via 伏尔戈星图, SAC seems to be up to something big. EOI biddings (is that what you call it?) for the following this month (May):

- Electromagnetic simulation for a static prototype (static test frame?), aiming for project conclusion within 20 months after the contract is signed.

- Software to provide analysis on the comprehensive design of a new intake and bypass design, aiming for project conclusion within 24 months and the product to be delivered within 20 months after signing.

- Software modules for:
a.) Complex flow field distortion grid intelligent adjustment (to my understanding, something akin to a Adaptive Mesh Refinement grid generator?)
b.) High-precision High Subsonic Shock Boundary Layer Flow State Analysis
c.) Solving buffeting characteristics of time-varying configurations (?)
Product handover within 10 months after signing.

- Microwave anechoic chamber for measuring an aircraft's EM characteristics and electric field screening, completion and handover before 31/12/2025.

View attachment 130377View attachment 130378View attachment 130379View attachment 130380

Another one from Shenyang AC, this time about a cockpit simulation and environmental collection equipment. Posted by @伏尔戈星图 on Weibo.

 

[Deino]

Thanks to @Blitzo again for a great read on the PLAAF's 6th generation fighter program, an update on the J-20 and more ...

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[Blitzo]

Thanks to @Blitzo again for a great read on the PLAAF's 6th generation fighter program, an update on the J-20 and more ...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Really most of the stuff people here are probably aware of.

The only thing of note is I'm throwing in my suggested name for the next gen fighter as J-XD (justified as described in the article)

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Really most of the stuff people here are probably aware of.

The only thing of note is I'm throwing in my suggested name for the next gen fighter as J-XD (justified as described in the article)

Impressed you even knew the correct tonal symbols for pinyin!

 

[phrozenflame]

If AI can save either the pilot or the successful completion of an important mission how would it choose?

My guess would be that it would not be blamed for saving the pilot since if the pilot is incapacitated normally it would result in mission failure anyway. Still it might be tempting.

AI would not operate with full free reign, there will be certain conditions hardcoded into it and they will be identified through synthetic (simulated data) and real data. Current implemented and widely used AI models dont entirely work like our brain does, people often mistake that it does, there are similarities but also lots of differences, but all that will be the next generation of AI. Simplest example is your brain can learn something just by seeing it, while AI needs to be trained on hundreds and thousands of images or that specific information to learn all that.

here is one good video to explain a bit more technically how all that works in AI.

Major countries are striving and racing towards that goal of next-gen AI and obviously it will have alot of implications for defense and world in general. This is also why the supreconductor war is so critical. The most interesting of things will be the generation of AI after the next, where all those aritifical brains are connected through network and learn from each other. Imagine if all billions of humans have their brains networked to each other forming a single unified collective intelligence. Interesting times ahead and with exponential pace of technology and us taking good care of our health , we may just live to see it, remember everyone, carbs are the real baddies.