PLA next/6th generation fighter thread

[Gloire_bb]

I defined 5.5 gen as fully networked capability with loyal wingman drone support. It is a capability that give definitive advantage against early 2000 F-22 Raptor. 5th platform is defined by stealth. J-16 with drones is not stealthy therefore not 5th gen platform. It is not 5.5th gen. It is very clear cut. Do not play stupid.

All modern (2010s) '5th gen fighters' are fully networked; none have loyal wingman support yet (and LW aren't specifically tied to any generation, again) - even NGAD, if it is to fly tomorrow, will not have them - for a simple reason, they don't exist yet, and are arguably beyond what is doable at the current level of software.

Unclear part is that you watch at a specific aircraft, when you are talking about a unit: when you say the word loyal wingman, it has consequences beyond commercial buzzword.
J-16 is not LO - but LWs operating with it may very well be LO. They may very well operate well forward of it, thus allowing it to reasonably hide behind escort and stand-in jamming(or simply fly low). The sum of such formation is quite likely to be LO, and may very well be functionally equal to a full stealth formation.

And, vise versa, 6th gen a/c may be in control of non-LO(or, more likely, lesser LO) elements. The aircraft itself will continue to be VLO, but the formation it operates with - will not.
It may even be stealthier and operate ahead of drone formation (which is actually the way USAF sees it, at least as far as we know).

 

[TK3600]

5.5 gen do not exist it is an arbitrary name for the capability I described. Lastly we don't know if NGAD will be 6th gen as we understood the word. For all we know they called B-21 6th gen.

The existence of loyal wing man drone needs to be defined yes. At the most basic level it can function autonomously for reconaissance even a J-7 could get one. But that is not what I refered to when I say compatible. I expect a much deeper integration than that. It may or may not need another pilot to command the drones giving complex orders. To do so a series of training, compute power, and software must exist on the aircraft to optimise the command power. I suspect latest twin seat J-20 had it in mind when designing it.

 

[phrozenflame]

I defined 5.5 gen as fully networked capability with loyal wingman drone support. It is a capability that give definitive advantage against early 2000 F-22 Raptor. 5th platform is defined by stealth. J-16 with drones is not stealthy therefore not 5th gen platform. It is not 5.5th gen. It is very clear cut. Do not play stupid.

Just wanted to add that Indian media defines AMCA as 5.5 gen fighter, I'm not exactly sure what brings them to that conclusion.

 

[measuredingabens]

Just wanted to add that Indian media defines AMCA as 5.5 gen fighter, I'm not exactly sure what brings them to that conclusion.

I really, really wouldn't put stock into what Indian media says about these things. A lot of what comes out from that media landscape is Fox News tier.

 

[no_name]

Just wanted to add that Indian media defines AMCA as 5.5 gen fighter, I'm not exactly sure what brings them to that conclusion.

Cause China already have 5th gen, and US is working on 6th gen. So great AMCA must be 5.5 gen.

Also AMCA does not exist yet, so they may call it 100 gen if they want.

 

[Biscuits]

Arguably the J20B is already an example of 5.5 gen. In the sense that it would have a clear advantage over other 5th gen the same way a 4.5 gen have over 4th gen.

But 4.5 gen was first invented as a marketing term, and the J20B won't be sold anytime soon if ever, so it's unlikely that China would invent the 5.5 gen label for it, even if that is what it is de facto.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Just wanted to add that Indian media defines AMCA as 5.5 gen fighter, I'm not exactly sure what brings them to that conclusion.

Same as everywhere else.

Hire an intern - he'll make you the generation you need out of your presidential Cessna in a single evening.

Tejas 2, AMCA and TEDBF have to fly first, then we'll talk about generations and everything else.

 

[antiterror13]

Arguably the J20B is already an example of 5.5 gen. In the sense that it would have a clear advantage over other 5th gen the same way a 4.5 gen have over 4th gen.

But 4.5 gen was first invented as a marketing term, and the J20B won't be sold anytime soon if ever, so it's unlikely that China would invent the 5.5 gen label for it, even if that is what it is de facto.

What clear advantage that J-20B over F-22 and F-35 ?

 

[Michaelsinodef]

What clear advantage that J-20B over F-22 and F-35 ?

Likely to be something like Loyal wingman drones as the more clearcut advantage (afterall, it's a 2 seater, and one thing for the 2nd pilot is definitely drone control).

At the end of the day, we really can't say much, since we don't have that much information, although it should be the case that the J-20B over the J-20A should have many improvements (like blitzo said, one can see the A as being late 00s tech, while B should be late 10s tech, and we know how much tech wise China has improved in just those years).

 

[Gloire_bb]

What clear advantage that J-20B over F-22 and F-35 ?

Guys, can we wait to at least see a finished J-20B first?

Saying at least outside advantages of J-20A/F-35 over F-22A (as well as the likeliest inside ones), for example, doesn't take much - precisely because we have two finished products, with lots of corresponding publications talking about fighter design/air combat evolution. We simply know what has changed between 1997 and 2011, 2006 and 2016.