PLA next/6th generation fighter thread

[gelgoog]

They might design an airframe with basically no vertical tail surfaces to maximize stealth and use TVC nozzles for maneuvering.
And the initial engine could be WS-15.
The airframe could also have some equivalent of DAS sensors in case J-20 does not have it yet.

 

[latenlazy]

They might design an airframe with basically no vertical tail surfaces to maximize stealth and use TVC nozzles for maneuvering.
And the initial engine could be WS-15.
The airframe could also have some equivalent of DAS sensors in case J-20 does not have it yet.

Not just TVC. At least based on research we've seen flight control design is moving toward novel control devices like spoilers, full authority wingtips, and split ailerons. A lot of flight control theory for 6th generation fighters looks to be shifting to differential control of the over-body and over-wing flow fields, especially from vortex lift. On this the Su-57 is actually a very good precursor to 6th generation flight control theory with its LEVCONS, whatever else people may assess about its merits as a stealth fighter.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Tbh a 5.5gen aircraft can replace all of those. Imagine a jacked up J-20 two seater backed by a variety drones optimized various missions. There can be air to air drones that pack lots of missile for cheap. There can be cheap ground strike drones that attack while J-20 is not exposed.

Please define 5.5 gen aircraft in your opinion.
B/c, for example, the point can be made that J-20A/F-35/Su-57 - all 2010s aircraft, - are 5.5 gen aircraft in the first place. There is a very clear technological and conceptual line b/n them and the Raptor - and by now we know very well that F-22 won't be able to cross it.

 

[TK3600]

Please define 5.5 gen aircraft in your opinion.
B/c, for example, the point can be made that J-20A/F-35/Su-57 - all 2010s aircraft, - are 5.5 gen aircraft in the first place. There is a very clear technological and conceptual line b/n them and the Raptor - and by now we know very well that F-22 won't be able to cross it.

Su-27 is a 4th gen aircraft, but with some avionic upgrade it can become 4.5gen. In my case a 5.5gen is defined its extremely networked nature allowing it to command loyal wingman and provide distributed firing solution to each other. If USA really want to they can definitely rework F-22 into 5.5 gen. It is just a bit awkward because its production facility no longer exists. Although currently this is a moot point. There is no loyal wingman drone officially in service yet.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Su-27 is a 4th gen aircraft, but with some avionic upgrade it can become 4.5gen.

And when su-27j-16 commands a mesh of stealthy loyal wingmen in front of it?

If USA really want to they can definitely rework F-22 into 5.5 gen.

Well, technically yes - as it is possible to rework, say, old Japanese F-15Js(which themselves were born as a mix of A and C airframes!) into F-15JSIs.
Just very uneconomical - as it ended up, less economical than retrofitting the same technologies into the 1970s F-15EX. Airframe, even if it flies well, - just isn't worth it. A new build(see NGAD) makes more sense.

p.s.starting again with an Ex after the raptor should've been slightly awkward!

There is no loyal wingman drone officially in service yet.

I frankly think it will take some time to achieve - especially true LWs, capable of fully operating with single-seaters.
Task-oriented jet drones (kizilelma style) are way closer.

 

[TK3600]

And when su-27j-16 commands a mesh of stealthy loyal wingmen in front of it?

Well, technically yes - as it is possible to rework, say, old Japanese F-15Js(which themselves were born as a mix of A and C airframes!) into F-15JSIs.
Just very uneconomical - as it ended up, less economical than retrofitting the same technologies into the 1970s F-15EX. Airframe, even if it flies well, - just isn't worth it. A new build(see NGAD) makes more sense.

p.s.starting again with an Ex after the raptor should've been slightly awkward!

I frankly think it will take some time to achieve - especially true LWs, capable of fully operating with single-seaters.
Task-oriented jet drones (kizilelma style) are way closer.

You can stack AESA and full digital control on a mig-21 too what is your point. A J-16 with some 6th tech is still not 5.5 gen. You can invent a new name like 4.9gen but clearly it is not 5.5 gen people would refer to: 5th gen aircraft platform updated with next gen systems.

 

[Gloire_bb]

You can stack AESA and full digital control on a mig-21 too what is your point. A J-16 with some 6th tech is still not 5.5 gen. You can invent a new name like 4.9gen but clearly it is not 5.5 gen people would refer to: 5th gen aircraft platform updated with next gen systems.

Yep, moreover - that actually happened (iirc Thailand in their righteous madness stuffied full modern electronics suite inside of an F-5 of all things).
The question is that upgraded and newly built airframes are not the same - like it often annoyingly happens with the term 4.5 gen(which encompasses aircraft designed, built, and upgraded from the late 1980s to at least late 2020s, and counting).

5.5 term in this case is just as tricky - precisely because we have to define what we mean by both "5" and ".5".
And what, wise versa, isn't generation-defining, and may very well be an attribute of any generation of jet fighters. Like, inter alia, long range.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Concerning the PLAAF's future fighter we are all always concentrate on CAC ... but do we know if there's a similar project at SAC too? Is it already a given fact or only a rumour that this type will again be built by CAC?

Perhaps we can think about it from another angle...

Does the PLAN intend to field carrier-based 6th-gen fighters after the J-35/31?

This is because SAC is the only one across the entire AVIC who has the necessary expertise and experience of designing, building and maintaining carrier-based fighters, i.e. J-15.

Therefore, if the above question is yes, then I believe we can expect 6th-gen fighters from SAC as well.

 

[Deino]

Guys… can we please stick to the topic and not endlessly discuss this stupid classification of generations as if if it is a game!

 

[TK3600]

Yep, moreover - that actually happened (iirc Thailand in their righteous madness stuffied full modern electronics suite inside of an F-5 of all things).
The question is that upgraded and newly built airframes are not the same - like it often annoyingly happens with the term 4.5 gen(which encompasses aircraft designed, built, and upgraded from the late 1980s to at least late 2020s, and counting).

5.5 term in this case is just as tricky - precisely because we have to define what we mean by both "5" and ".5".
And what, wise versa, isn't generation-defining, and may very well be an attribute of any generation of jet fighters. Like, inter alia, long range.

I defined 5.5 gen as fully networked capability with loyal wingman drone support. It is a capability that give definitive advantage against early 2000 F-22 Raptor. 5th platform is defined by stealth. J-16 with drones is not stealthy therefore not 5th gen platform. It is not 5.5th gen. It is very clear cut. Do not play stupid.