PLA next/6th generation fighter thread

[constalation]

Hi all,

Having joined about a month ago, it seems I arrived just in time to see all this movement! I appreciate the likes of SDF, considering how biased and useless both traditional media and even the internet has become over the years, even as a non-westerner. Nonetheless, here I am with my two cents.

To my knowledge, the latest rumors describe a platform larger than a traditional fighter, with improved MTOW and stealth with a tailless, diamond winged profile.

I think we are being limited ill defined ‘Generational’ terms here.

Instead of the PLAAF 6th Gen or J-XD being a superior replacement of 5th Gens, I foresee the future J-XD occupying a new role such as a ‘Forward Command Node’ that would aim to establish air dominance in mainly 3 facets at the very front of the theatre:

1. Information Dominance: Data collection, Processing and Linking. A forward AWACS function.
2. Firepower Dominance: Consist of AAMs, Hypersonics and even AGMs in the future.
3. UAV coordination and control: Mission control of UAVs and other 5th Gens.

Imagine an advanced hybrid between a J20 and a F-117 that coexists to better synergize between existing 5th Gens and UAVs. It would make sense in the short to midterm with the PLAAF procuring new J20 variants and J35 even.

I would liken the J-XD to plating the role of a castle watchtower, with the UAVs, 5th and 4th Gens making up the castle walls.


With regards to the USA’s NGAD/FA-XX, I also see it competing in the same facets of information, firepower and UAV control dominance etc. However, when we consider the limitations of the F35 and age/availability of the F22 I can see the US 6th Gen being more of a replacement to their 5th Gens unlike the Chinese counterpart.

There could very well be a difference in requirements and role between the two nations 6th Gens here. This could lead to some good arguments and dick measuring contests on the internet at least. XD

 

[ChineseToTheBone]

SAC - 2-engine naval/land fighter jet going into service around 2037

Almost forgot this existed since it will come out much later if the design is selected.
Regardless of how the upcoming three engine six generation fighter jet looks, it will likely be very different than what Shenyang recently hinted as their design back in July.

 

[Deino]

Considering the initial claim from last week that China's (and very likely to be Chengdu AC's) J-XD concept/technology demonstrator/prototype will have three engines + Given that it's not just Cute Orca, but also Ayi, Shenhua, @万年炎帝 and now even Yankee who also touched upon the original post prior to deletion + The (apparent) repeated touch-ons of the same point today.

Combining all the information obtained so far (including possible Shenyang AC's counterpart to follow suit in early next year), and disregarding the discussion of how a three-engine combat warplane should perform - Could there will actually be three main categories of manned combat warplanes for China's 6th-gen air combat systems going forward?

Namely:

Aircraft Model	J-XD2	J-XD1	H-20
Aircraft Corporation	Shenyang	Chengdu	Xi'an
Relative Size Example	(Y)F-23	F-111	B-2
MTOW	30+ tons - 40+ tons	50+ tons - 60+ tons	170+ tons - 200+ tons
Engines	2x WS-10C/15-based or ACE-based WS-XX, afterburning	3x WS-10C/15-based or ACE-based WS-XX, afterburning	4x WS-18/10C/15-based or ACE-based WS-XX, non-afterburning
Combat Radius, Unrefueled	2IC	2IC - 2.5IC	2IC - 2.5IC
Payload Capacity, Internal	<~10 tons	~10-20 tons	~20-30 tons
Primary Role	Fighter	Fighter	Strategic Bomber
Secondary Role	Strike Aircraft	Tactical Bomber	Tactical Bomber
End Users	PLAAF, PLAN (carrier-capable)	PLAAF	PLAAF

Of course, this is just my own 脑洞大开 moment on the matter based on currently-available circumstantial information, so kindly take these with a huge scoop of sodium chloride.

Wait a moment - unfortunately I have so much to do at work at the moment, that I lost some posts - but where is this rumour on two J-XD1/2 types coming from ... and further:

So I wonder if we are going to basically have:
XAC - H-20 strategic bomber going into service around 2030
CAC - 3-engine fighter bomber going into service around 2032
SAC - 2-engine naval/land fighter jet going into service around 2037

Given how China is going, I think it would have the budget for 3 programs basically serving 3 roles. The first two are probably more important since J-20A and J-35A should be competitive for a while.

... when became this "idea" a "rumour" and now almost an "accepted fact"?? ... and where is now in this list of projects the long-rumoured SAC/XAX JH-XX??

I'm a bit confused right now!

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Wait a moment - unfortunately I have so much to do at work at the moment, that I lost some posts - but where is this rumour on two J-XD1/2 types coming from ... and further:

Mainly obtained from scouting the comment sections underneath the Weibo posts by the You-know-whoS concerning the news and rumors about Chengdu AC's J-XD.

But again, I cannot guarantee the veracity of such claims as of present. Hence this post of mine from late-November:

Saw some rumors that Shenyang AC will also have their own J-XD concept/technology demonstrator/prototype taking first flight sometime next year.

No idea how valid this claim is, however, so take this claim with a table-spoonful of salt.

---

Add-on:


From the quote-post:

I don't know whether there is a bidding competition (between Chengdu and Shenyang ACs), but (both) Chengdu AC and Shenyang AC do have 6th(-gen manned fighter projects)

 

[Gloire_bb]

It's not enough to derive 2-engine jet with some schedule from that... just project(study, competition, etc)

 

[tphuang]

Wait a moment - unfortunately I have so much to do at work at the moment, that I lost some posts - but where is this rumour on two J-XD1/2 types coming from ... and further:



... when became this "idea" a "rumour" and now almost an "accepted fact"?? ... and where is now in this list of projects the long-rumoured SAC/XAX JH-XX??

I'm a bit confused right now!

I don't think it's accepted fact. More just speculating on what may happen if the rumor is true.

for 5th gen, the differentiation between J-20 and J-35A does not seem that large.

I remember Yankee said he sees J-35A as too small.

So it would reason that if both SAC and CAC have separate 6th generation designs, both would be larger than 5th gen project.

So, I'm simply forwarding a hypothesis.

 

[oleracea]

A competition would imply both SAC and CAC are designing fighters to fill the same role, like the J-20 and the Snowy Owl Prototype. This probably means that both fighters will have similar size, weight, armament, etc., and will likely have the same number of engines.

 

[Deino]

...Snowy Owl Prototype...

Prototype? As far as I know, there was never a prototype!

 

[oleracea]

Prototype? As far as I know, there was never a prototype!

I did not know that, I guess the Snowy Owl pitch would be more correct. Still I don't see how SAC and CAC will have proposals with different number of engines. Maybe a 2 engine naval fighter will be developed and adopted for land service but that's too far away.

 

[CannedFish]

I did not know that, I guess the Snowy Owl pitch would be more correct. Still I don't see how SAC and CAC will have proposals with different number of engines. Maybe a 2 engine naval fighter will be developed and adopted for land service but that's too far away.

Could simply be that neither SAC nor CAC proposed but high command contracting them to make designs with specific specs, the one requiring greater specs to CAC, the naval one to SAC.
Or two different airframes were asked (this is system-of-systems after all), and both won the bid for each.