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the above goes on:

Et ce concept de plateforme porteuse d’armes presque « aveugle » n’est pas nouveau pour la marine chinoise, en réalité. Le patrouilleur lance-missile furtif Type 22, conçu spécialement après la crise du détroit de Taïwan en 1996, est un exemple typique.

Faiblement équipé en capteurs, sauf ceux nécessaires pour ses besoins de navigation, le Type 22 construit à plus de 80 exemplaires sert principalement comme plateforme de lancement pour la marine chinoise. Le navire utilise quasi-exclusivement les paramètres de tir reçus d’ailleurs pour lancer ses 8 missiles anti-navires, en s’approchant suffisamment près de ses cibles comme les porte-avions et ses navires d’escorte grâce à sa furtivité soigneusement travaillée.

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"And this concept of almost "blind" weapon carrying platform is not new to the Chinese navy, in reality. The Type 22 stealth missile launcher, specially designed after the Taiwan Strait Crisis in 1996, is a typical example.

Weakly equipped with sensors, except those needed for its navigation needs, the Type 22 built more than 80 units serves mainly as launch platform for the Chinese Navy. The ship uses almost exclusively the firing parameters received from elsewhere to launch its 8 anti-ship missiles, approaching close enough to its targets like the carriers and its escort ships thanks to its carefully worked stealth."

Bien entendu, il reste encore de nombreuses interrogations sur ce type de concept semi-submersible, si en plus il est utilisé de la même manière que l’Arsenal ship du départ.

Comment il doit s’articuler dans le système des systèmes existants de la marine chinoise ? Quel est le meilleur déplacement pour ce navire ? Quel type de propulsion – nucléaire, CODOG, CODAD – sera le plus adapté à ses multi-modes de navigation ? Comment peut-il s’assurer de rester « connecté » aux restants du monde ? Quid de sa fiabilité ? …etc…etc.

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"Of course, there are still many questions about this type of semi-submersible concept, if in addition it is used in the same way as the starting Arsenal ship.

How should it be articulated in the system of the existing systems of the Chinese navy? What is the best move for this ship? What type of propulsion - nuclear, CODOG, CODAD - will be the most suitable for its multi-mode navigation? How can he ensure that he remains "connected" to the rest of the world? What about its reliability? …etc., etc."

Quoiqu’il en soit, si le projet existe réellement, il fait aussi penser à la frégate semi-submersible de 3 000 tonnes dessinée par Erbil SERTER dans les années 90′. Et compte tenu de la progression des études et les quelques dates que l’on connait à ce jour, il est peu envisageable que les chantiers navals chinois aient déjà démarré la construction d’un tel Arsenal ship semi-submersible comme prétendent certains médias, en Chine comme ailleurs.

On peut, en revanche, raisonnablement penser qu’un projet concret de navire de guerre, ou du moins un navire expérimental, ait été approuvé et qui donne l’autorisation à certains bureaux d’études chinois, comme l’Institut 701 du groupe CSIC par exemple, de démarrer officiellement la conception initiale, maintenant que les pré-études sont à priori terminées.

A suivre.

Henri K.



Annexe : Cet article est dédié à mon ami Daniel pour ses explications passionnantes sur les différents sujets en bateaux et construction navale. Un grand merci.

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"Whatever the case, if the project really exists, it also makes one think of the semi-submersible frigate of 3 000 tons drawn by Erbil SERTER in the 90's. And given the progress of the studies and the few dates that are known to date, it is hardly conceivable that the Chinese shipyards have already started the construction of such a semi-submersible Arsenal ship as some media claim, China as elsewhere.

On the other hand, it can be reasonably assumed that a concrete warship project, or at least an experimental vessel, has been approved and gives permission to certain Chinese consultancy firms, such as the CSIC Institute 701 For example, to start officially the initial design, now that the pre-studies are a priori completed.

To be continued.

Henri K.



Appendix: This article is dedicated to my friend Daniel for his exciting explanations on the various subjects in boats and shipbuilding. A big thank-you."

LOL!




dafeng cao Retweeted East Pendulum

Definitely the hottest topic in Chinese military forums these days, semi-submersible arsenal ship.

Here is the article from Henri K blog about the subject the translation is a bit hard to follow

China might be designing a new class of warship that incorporates, at least in part, the concept of the Arsenal Ship in the form of semi-submersible. This is in any case what lets believe a new rumor circulating since last week.

According to this Chinese source, the project of a platform "multi-roles" with displacement "thousands of tons" would be launched.

The image is a semi-submersible vessel having two massifs, situated at the front and at the rear, and between which there are a number of vertical launching silos.

The author also states that the vessel can not fully dive underwater, and is capable of operating on sea

So is this another amateur fantasy "putaclic", as some said, to dream of doing as "the great" in his time with the grandiose concept of the Arsenal ship?

Well, maybe not for this time.

It was in August 2016 when we saw a funny announcement in a local television report, which pays tribute to a teacher-researcher of the University of Engineer of the Chinese Navy, Age of 49 years. According to the presentation, man contributes greatly to the study of the hydrodynamics and navigation performance of military ships in China.


Sketch in a televised report on Professor DONG Wen Cai (excerpt: 新闻 新闻)

After the exchange with a friend, a naval design expert type, the latter thinks it is a small froud high barcass with total resistance equation Rt therefore of the non-archimedean drag, with a semi-gliding V Shell with lateral volumes. ), And a double pair of non-retractable stabilizers with different dimensions ".

"... in short the guy (a hydro) bump on a fast boat project ...", he adds.

Several leads in a series of small submersible infiltration experiments in the I-SILC model used by the North Koreans, or .

But none of these assumptions seems totally convincing.

A few days later, Chinese television channel CCTV-7 broadcast on the same researcher DONG Wen Cai (董文 才), and you can see a three-to-four-meter-long drone ship, probably one Prototype, Testing At the lake .


Testing a small semi-submersible to the lake (CCTV-7 image)

(cont)
Curiosity leads us to dig deeper into the final subjects of this Chinese military researcher, who has been awarded four national awards for his research and who has directed the work of some twenty doctoral students.

It Was Then That Learned DONG HAD-been working for ten years on two main themes - the active reduction of the drag by the formation of a layer of bubble under the hull, and a new conceptual platform called Expired HSWPVW (High Speed Wave Piercing Vehicle With wings), which combines the concepts of high-speed monohull, hydrofoil and semi-submersible piercing.

This second theme was the subject of , a foundation directly attached to the State Council, chaired by the Chinese Prime Minister, between 2009 and 2011.

According to some academic documents co-authored by DONG published, the HSWPVW is designed to swap between 4 different modes of navigation depending on the needs - immersed at periscopic depth, semi-submersible, surface navigation at normal speed, and semi -hovering at high speed.


The conceptual platform section HSWPVW (Image: NSFC)


The 4 navigation modes of the HSWPVW platform (Image: NSFC)

(cont2)

After a few years of preliminary theoretical studies, the Chinese Naval Engineering University, led by DONG and assisted by the 701 Institute of the Chinese Naval CSIC Group, appear to have taken great strides and completed the demonstration trials in October 2013, with .

Some research findings have been directly applied in the development of "thousands of ton" vessels, according to the NSFC committee.

new Rapid Fight Platform.


The Demonstration Vessel (Photos: 新华网)


The death of DONG in January 2016. Goal Reviews another very emblematic military researcher, Mr. A. Wei Ming (马伟明), a specialist in electrical engineering and naval propulsion of the Chinese Navy and academician at the Chinese Academy of Engineering, Referred , Which" will upset the style of existing naval combat ".

This "all powerful" ship is like the Arsenal ship, a concept emerged in 1988 in the United States and supported by Jeremy BOORDA, form admiral and 25th chief of naval operations of the US Navy. Projection capabilities that a carrier group represents around aircraft carriers.

Like the American Arsenal Ship, MA speaks of a ship which radiates extends up to 1,000 km, with many missiles and directed energy weapons, made possible thanks to the recent advances in the electromagnetic field in China.

HSWPVW on which Professor Dong works and the "omni-roles ship" evoked by MA, Already assumes that the Chinese navy is studying Type 5104 Type 054B frigate , medium destroyer Type 052D Of 6,000 tons, and the Type 055 multi-purpose destroyer of 12,000 tons to a new generation of Chinese first-line ship Name but a few - is currently under construction.

Is it realistic and feasible to design an Arsenal ship semi-submersible? Our skills are limited to speak intelligently. It will certainly depend on the vision of the Chinese navy on future naval combat and also the main threats it may face, starting with the naval air groups, for example, which still today, 100 years after their apparitions, .

We can imagine, perhaps utopian, a stealth semi-submersible platform, moving between 6,000 and 12,000 tones and highly automated, which will serve as one of the pivot points to increase the firepower of On the data received by other distributed sensors.

And this concept of almost "blind" weapon carrying platform is not new to the Chinese navy, in reality. The Type 22 stealth missile launcher , specially designed after the Taiwan Strait Crisis in 1996, is a typical example.

Weakly equipped with sensors, except those needed for its navigation needs, the Type 22 built more than 80 units. The ship uses almost exclusively the firing parameters received from elsewhere to launch its 8 anti-ship missiles, approaching close enough to its targets like the carriers and its escort ships thanks to its regarded stealth.



Of course, there are still many questions about this type of semi-submersible concept, if in addition it is used in the same way as the starting Arsenal ship.

How can it integrate into the existing system of the Chinese navy? What will be the doctrine of use? What is the best move for this ship? What type of propulsion - nuclear, CODOG, CODAD - will be the most suitable for its multi-modes of navigation and its needs? How to get to the rest of the world? What about its reliability and sustainability if the ship is highly automated? …etc., etc.


Concept of semi-submersible frigate by Erbil SERTER (Image: Jane's IDR Quarterly report 1997)

Whatever the case, if the project really exists, it also makes one think of the semi-submersible frigate of 3 000 tons drawn by Erbil SERTER in the 90's. And given the progress of the studies and the few known dates to date, it is unlikely that the Chinese shipyards have already started the construction of such a semi-submersible Arsenal ship as some media claim, China as elsewhere.

On the other hand, it can be reasonably assumed that a concrete warship project, or at least an experimental vessel, has been approved and gives permission to certain Chinese consultancy firms, such as the CSIC Institute 701 For example, to start officially the initial design, now that the pre-studies are a priori completed.

To be continued.

From oedosoldier blog nice rendition of arsenal ship. some one posted this

Mssn65 @ jpg 2 t 785 1 d 1 day ago More What's about China's semi-latent arsenal ship · Anti-aircraft, anti-ship · Semi-submarine vessel capable of submersible navigation · High-speed navigation by sea, underwater by new Technology, anti-submarine, anti-ground missile, anti-ship ballistic and torpedo mounted · Hold two bridges in front and behind · There are 3 buildings or more.

Hendrik_2000 said:

From oedosoldier blog nice rendition of arsenal ship. some one posted this

...

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LOL yeah there was like Naval Battle in this thread after Saturday at 12:43 AM

Bltizo said:

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nine pages back

where is this? I found it in Twitter

China attempting to leap beyond current US technology with first electric drive on a military submarine



Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, China’s top naval engineer, is notably responsible for the development of multiple Chinese naval electromagnetic programs, including the electromagnetic catapult and railguns. He said the Chinese navy is adding a “shaftless” rim-driven pumpjet, a revolutionary and silent propulsion system to their newest attack submarine, the Type 095 SSN.

This is similar to China making a stronger commitment to develop a submersible arsenal ship. China is taking technology and designs with decades of history and actually implementing them.

Previous submarine pumpjets are “shrouded propellers,” which consist of a tubular nozzle covering the propeller. By removing the shaft of the propeller, the reduction in the number of moving parts decreases the noise made by the pumpjet, as well as saving hull space. Smaller civilian rim driven electric pumpjets are easier to maintain, and have less cavitation (bubbles that form during propeller movement), which make them even more quiet.

CCTV13 had a “Focus on the interview” segment on May 30,2017. They discussed the of electric propulsion technology power of Admiral Ma Weiming. There was some discussion of the technology and spin about how China was moving beyond copying to attempt to create breakthroughs.The first few minutes of the video discussed telecommunication switching work of Zhang Ping.


Integrated Electrical Propulsion System (IEPS) turns all the output of the ship’s engine into electricity, unlike traditional propulsion designs, which convert engine and reactor output into mechanical action to turn the propeller shaft. The high electrical output can also be used to power motors for the propellers or potentially high-energy weapons. Additionally, IEPS has far fewer moving parts, making them quieter, and thus ideal for use on submarines. When coupled with quieter reactors like the Type 095’s reported natural circulation reactor, the rim-driven pumpjet and IEPS can drastically reduce the acoustic signature of any SSN.






Yamato-1 in 1991



Westinghouse, the leading U.S. advocate, gave up in the late 1960s — because the weight required to create a sufficiently powerful magnetic field would sink most ships.

In the early 1990s, Japan succeeded in making a 100 foot long 8 mph prototype surface ship called the Yamato. A group of Japanese physicists and naval architects quickly realized that the powerful magnetic coil made possible by superconductors could transform the MHD ship from old dream to new reality. Aconsortium of universities and major high-tech firms here committed about six years ago to forge ahead with a $40 million-plus project to build the propellerless MHD ship.

US and UK have tried to get electric drive to work but have not committed to it for their next generation submarines

The US Columbia submarine and UK Dreadought will not start construction for a few years and the first unit will be ready around the 2031. They have not decided to use electric drive and may choose more conventional propulsion systems.

The RED-I motor used a wet gap permanent magnet motor to turn a ring of propeller blades. Two RED-I motors are mounted in free flood areas in the submarine mud tank, forward of the stern planes. The permanent magnet motor employed is large enough to permit a four feet diameter UUV to internally pass through the RED-I propulsor system in order to deploy from the stern of the submarine.

There has been general acceptance that there is potential benefit for quieter submarines using this technology but the US has opted for more conventional approaches for quieter submarines.

Various electric motors are being or have been developed for both military and non-military vessels.Those being considered for application on future U.S. Navy submarines include: permanent magnet motors (being developed by General Dynamics and Newport News Shipbuilding) and a high-temperature superconducting (HTS) synchronous motors (being developed by American Superconductors as well as General Atomics).

More recent data shows that the US Navy appears to be focusing on permanent-magnet, radial-gap electric propulsion motors (e.g. Zumwalt-class destroyers use an advanced induction motor). Permanent magnet motors are being tested on the Large Scale Vehicle II for possible application on late production Virginia class SSNs as well as future submarines. Permanent magnet motors (developed by Siemens AG) are used on Type 212 class submarines.

Reports on the Royal UK Navy Dreadnought-class submarine (i.e., the class that will replace the Vanguard class SSBNs) state that the submarines may have submarine shaftless drive (SSD) with an electric motor mounted outside the pressure hull. SSD was evaluated by the U.S. Navy as well but it remains unknown whether the Ohio class replacement will feature it. On contemporary nuclear submarines steam turbines are linked to reduction gears and a shaft rotating the propeller/pump-jet propulsor. With SSD, steam would drive electric turbogenerators (i.e., generators powered by steam turbines) that would be connected to a non-penetrating electric junction at the aft end of the pressure hull, with a watertight electric motor mounted externally (perhaps in an Integrated Motor Propulsor arrangement) powering the pump-jet propulsor, although SSD concepts without pump-jet propulsors also exist. More recent data, including an Ohio Replacement scale model displayed at the Navy League’s 2015 Sea-Air-Space Exposition, indicates that the Ohio Replacement will feature a pump-jet propulsor visually similar to the one used on Virginia class SSNs. The class will share components from the Virginia class in order to reduce risk and cost of construction

A.Man said:

Integrated Electrical Propulsion System (IEPS) turns all the output of the ship’s engine into electricity, unlike traditional propulsion designs, which convert engine and reactor output into mechanical action to turn the propeller shaft. The high electrical output can also be used to power motors for the propellers or potentially high-energy weapons. Additionally, IEPS has far fewer moving parts, making them quieter, and thus ideal for use on submarines. When coupled with quieter reactors like the Type 095’s reported natural circulation reactor, the rim-driven pumpjet and IEPS can drastically reduce the acoustic signature of any SSN.

Yamato-1 in 1991

Westinghouse, the leading U.S. advocate, gave up in the late 1960s — because the weight required to create a sufficiently powerful magnetic field would sink most ships.

In the early 1990s, Japan succeeded in making a 100 foot long 8 mph prototype surface ship called the Yamato. A group of Japanese physicists and naval architects quickly realized that the powerful magnetic coil made possible by superconductors could transform the MHD ship from old dream to new reality. Aconsortium of universities and major high-tech firms here committed about six years ago to forge ahead with a $40 million-plus project to build the propellerless MHD ship.

US and UK have tried to get electric drive to work but have not committed to it for their next generation submarines

The US Columbia submarine and UK Dreadought will not start construction for a few years and the first unit will be ready around the 2031. They have not decided to use electric drive and may choose more conventional propulsion systems.

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The article mixed up magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) drive with IEPS, they're very different things. MHD is about generating propulsion with electromagnetic fields (no moving parts), and IEPS is about power transmission and distribution using electricity grids. MHD is still very far from military application due to its limited output, whereas various generations of IEPS are already in or fairly close to deployment.