PLA Anti-Air Missile (SAM) systems

pipaster

Junior Member
Registered Member
Found another screenshot from the same academic paper. Posted by the same guy on Weibo.

View attachment 126781

VariableInitial valueOptimized value
Design variableMissile diameter (m)0.60.63
Wing root chord length (m)43.8
Wing tip chord length (m)31.6
Sweep angle (degrees)6072
Wingspan length (m)0.30.28
Fuel quantity (kg)17301328
Fuel quantity (kg) (not sure why duplicate?)851744
Windward height (m)0.30.315

Target functionLiftoff weight (kg)3037.82565.3

Design constrainsRange (should be in km, not kg)2175.22008.4
Missile length (m)9.848.11
Liftoff weight (kg) (again, why duplicate?)3037.82565.3
(The order of the table columns for all three sections follow the topmost table header (text bolded))

If it is multi staged, it could be showing the fuel weight of both stages in two seperate fields.
 

LCR34

Junior Member
Registered Member
2000 km range, akin to lobbing a thinner DF15 at an aircraft. Only explanation is the missile reaches space, fires up 2nd stage to boost range, then reentry to hit its target.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
2000 km range, akin to lobbing a thinner DF15 at an aircraft. Only explanation is the missile reaches space, fires up 2nd stage to boost range, then reentry to hit its target.

2000 kilometers is way too far for any anti-air missiles (AAMs) to work in both subsonic and supersonic speeds, given the speed at which targeted aircrafts can travel within the duration from the SAM's launch to the SAM reaching its supposed target zone.

This means that hypersonic very likely to be the only option. Plus, given the PLA's liking these days, I wouldn't be surprised if they would fit a HGV on top of the two stages of the "super-duper SAM" in order to achieve such incredible ranges while having a moderate-sized missile body.
 
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bebops

Junior Member
Registered Member
with the congested number of SAR satellites in space, long range missile loses its effectiveness. It is being detected once launched

Before I used to believed that a swarm of hypersonic missile is a game changer. Now it is 50/50%. Unless the missile know how to make sudden swerve around oncoming antimissiles like its playing dodgeball or something..
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
with the congested number of SAR satellites in space, long range missile loses its effectiveness. It is being detected once launched

Before I used to believed that a swarm of hypersonic missile is a game changer. Now it is 50/50%. Unless the missile know how to make sudden swerve around oncoming antimissiles like its playing dodgeball or something..

Imagine trying to catch a basketball while both you and the basketball are in the air (as in, you jump upwards in order to catch the basketball before it scores) - But this time, both you and the basketball are travelling in the units of kilometers per second (km/s), not meters per second (m/s) - Across vast, empty spaces.

It's one thing to detect and trace the strike missile, but it's another thing to be able to effectively and continuously track the strike missile while formulating solutions before launching interceptors at the right trajectory and speed in order to intercept the strike missile.

That's also why long-range strike missiles are developed to travel faster in the supersonic and hypersonic speed regimes. For the interceptor missile, even having a trajectory that misses the strike missile by merely 1 or 2 degrees can mean missing the strike missile by kilometers entirely.

Besides, what makes you think that short-range missiles can't be detected and tracked? Beyond satellites, there are plenty of land, air and sea-based platforms that can reliably detect and track these kinds of missiles. Even low-observability missiles are no exception - They are just more difficult to track, not impossible.
 
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tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
2000 kilometers is way too far for any anti-air missiles (AAMs) to work in both subsonic and supersonic speeds, given the speed at which targeted aircrafts can travel within the duration from the SAM's launch to the SAM reaching its supposed target zone.

This means that hypersonic very likely to be the only option. Plus, given the PLA's liking these days, I wouldn't be surprised if they would fit a HGV on top of the two stages of the "super-duper SAM" in order to achieve such incredible ranges while having a moderate-sized missile body.
Is there reason to believe its not a cruise missiles first stage? There's no mention of duration, it can switch to its rocket motor once it closes within the no escape envelope, as AWACs/Tankers aren't particularly fast to begin with.
 

by78

General
Training simulators for MANPADS.

53596574223_7bf39fb4e9_k.jpg
53596364256_2d01e5a491_k.jpg
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Is there reason to believe its not a cruise missiles first stage? There's no mention of duration, it can switch to its rocket motor once it closes within the no escape envelope, as AWACs/Tankers aren't particularly fast to begin with.
Depends on the speed and distance at which the "super-duper SAM" travels for its cruising stage.

Besides, the longer the duration is spent to keep track on the target aircraft, the more time and effort is required to update the interception solutions in order to continuously correct the flight trajectories of the "super-duper SAM" so that it can reach its target aircraft. This means there would be more chances of uncertainties and possibilities that can be introduced into the equation, such as the "super-duper SAM" getting thrown off its target aircraft (by decoys or sudden break-up of target aircraft tracking), the target aircraft having enough chances to escape from interception, etc.
 
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TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Found another screenshot from the same academic paper. Posted by the same guy on Weibo.

View attachment 126781

VariableInitial valueOptimized value
Design variableMissile diameter (m)0.60.63
Wing root chord length (m)43.8
Wing tip chord length (m)31.6
Sweep angle (degrees)6072
Wingspan length (m)0.30.28
Fuel quantity (kg)17301328
Fuel quantity (kg) (not sure why duplicate?)851744
Windward height (m)0.30.315

Target functionLiftoff weight (kg)3037.82565.3

Design constrainsRange (should be in km, not kg)2175.22008.4
Missile length (m)9.848.11
Liftoff weight (kg) (again, why duplicate?)3037.82565.3
(The order of the table columns for all three sections follow the topmost table header (text bolded))
2000km range at least? That is crazy. It is basically a ballistic missile in terms of size. We are going from ballistic missile hitting a ship sized moving target to a AWAC size target with speed of a plane.
 
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