PLA Air Force news, pics and videos

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
To my knowledge, that figure was the number of PMAI J-20s in active Brigades. I happen to concur with that number circa EOY 2021. I'd have put it anywhere from 55 to 60 primary mission airframes across the force, with anywhere from 75-90 total airframes across the frontline brigades, training units, and performing auxiliary tasks.
Fair enough, if they did not count the ones that were delivered at end of the year but clearly going into service over the first few months of this year, then that's more reasonable.

I just saw stuff like this, which is clearly less than your numbers
Therefore, excluding those of the 5th Aviation Brigade, the PLAAF may possess 49 to 70 J-20s (33 to 50 in combat units). Because the 5th Aviation Brigade only recently began receiving the J-20, it is unlikely to have more than one PLAAF flight squadron of four J-20s, so the total number of the PLAAF’s J-20s may be in the range of 53 to 74 (37 to 54 in combat units)
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
The article is saying the opposite what you have posted. The problem with the PLAAF is the lack of real combat experience. And the pilots are stimulated to perform via competitions like the Golden Helmets. Although it has help to improve the skills of the pilots but the problem is that these competitions more and more resemble sporting events than combat training. Like pilots trying to run out the clock to gain points.

I believe that something like the Golden Helmet competition is fostering the wrong kind of skills. The Golden Helmet competition is about one on one dogfights. That is a archaic form of aerial combat that belongs in the era of WWII or Korea. Today aerial combat is about different units and types of planes working together as a single whole. While the Golden Helmet competition is about individual glory. The exact opposite of what you want to encourage.

The article makes the mistake of presuming that the entire form of "competitive DACT" is a flawed form of exercise with little utility -- rather than just one of many forms of DACT that is included as part of a pilot's training for aerial combat, and whose utility is entirely dependent on the way in which the rules, parameters and structures are laid out and refined over time.

"Self defeating" is a strange term they've chosen, and I would rather describe it as "can be more optimized than it already is".

Golden helmet is just one form of DACT, and DACT is only one component of large force exercises (where all of the moving bits are put together at a major exercise range) like Red Sword.


Personally I think golden helmet is a perfectly fine exercise to have in context of the full variety of other exercises that the PLA has.
The way the article describes it, portrays competitive DACT as if it is actively damaging or corrosive, which is bizarre.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member

Just a heads up that CASI (with whom I happen to be quite friendly) put out a fun webinar on the state of the PLAAF earlier. Helped prep some of the materials, so I can vouch for its sincerity.
The speakers were fairly decent (a couple of broke takes aside) but the guy moderating the discussion is a real clown. It would have been vastly improved if he'd kept his snout shut.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
I'm a bit surprised that integrated operations and joint training of the PLAAF/Army/Navy is still at a "basic" level.

By the way, @Blitzo your complaint about lack of PGM employment and training is being echoed by CASI as well.
Sounds really bad news for China. Which means the PLA still needs some time at the very least to resolve those pain in the a$$, in my opinion.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I'm a bit surprised that integrated operations and joint training of the PLAAF/Army/Navy is still at a "basic" level.

By the way, @Blitzo your complaint about lack of PGM employment and training is being echoed by CASI as well.

I haven't watched the video yet, but from my experience, CASI tends to be a bit more "low-ball"-ish and in terms of timing anywhere from half a year to a year behind in publishing developments that we take for granted as visible or seen.

That said, joint operations between services are of course very difficult and if compared to the US being the gold standard, it would be very fair to say that the PLA between its services is still quite far behind and that jointness hasn't been pushed down as low (though I do wonder if it needs to be pushed down that low to begin with for the kind of conflicts the PLA is planning for).

And in terms of PGM use, I imagine they are applying the same standards I am, which is awaiting clear definitive evidence/imagery and trying to form an opinion based on that. But it gets messier once you factor in deliberate PLA opsec, to judge where they might actually be..
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
The article is saying the opposite what you have posted. The problem with the PLAAF is the lack of real combat experience. And the pilots are stimulated to perform via competitions like the Golden Helmets. Although it has help to improve the skills of the pilots but the problem is that these competitions more and more resemble sporting events than combat training. Like pilots trying to run out the clock to gain points.

I believe that something like the Golden Helmet competition is fostering the wrong kind of skills. The Golden Helmet competition is about one on one dogfights. That is a archaic form of aerial combat that belongs in the era of WWII or Korea. Today aerial combat is about different units and types of planes working together as a single whole. While the Golden Helmet competition is about individual glory. The exact opposite of what you want to encourage.

Golden Helmet starts with BVR and progresses to WVR only if the pilots can survive the merge. If it is just dogfights then Su-35 would've swept the 4.5th gen category.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Hah, yeah I'm not a fan of him. The whole thing was put together for air combat command, so I suppose there were bound to be a few silly statements though. I do insist though that the speakers themselves are engaged in good faith.
He seems like one of those unpleasantly awkward people who try too hard to be funny. Enough about him, anyway; I had some questions about the content I'd like to run by you:
  1. Anytime someone puts "China" and "demographics" in the same sentence, I know it's going to be a broke take - but the topic did actually touch on something interesting, namely the skill level required to participate in the modern PLAAF. I'm sure it doesn't take a college degree to apply a coating to a J-20 (in fact, that could have the opposite effect as anyone sufficiently educated would want to stay the hell away from anything applied to stealth aircraft), but I wondered if the requisite skill level could be reduced with the use of augmented reality and AI. To give an example, I remember seeing a nifty laser gizmo that projected assembly instructions on F-35 parts - something like "pick up tool ABC123 and tighten the illuminated bolts." I foresee that and more advanced iterations like "put on the glasses and do what they tell you" lowering the qualification bar throughout the supporting cast of the PLAAF (and other air forces adopting them). Thoughts?
  2. Could you comment on the jointness of the PLAAF and PLANAF specifically? The speakers seemed to think that this was essentially zero.
  3. Civil military fusion seems to be a meme the Beltway types really glommed on to. Is Alibaba helping the PLA set up logistics centers and warehouses? Not that there's anything wrong with that. After all, isn't AWS the Pentagon's cloud provider of choice? Do you have any particular thoughts on CMF, because it just seems completely obvious and trivial that that's what any country with an advanced economy would do with its military.
  4. I don't know if Derek's your boy, but if he is then you kind of left him hanging a bit there on the PGMs. Didn't you tell him that the PLAAF is doing more with that than it's showing publicly?
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
according to Shilao and Yankee: Su-35 in BVR: 谁,都打不过, WVR: 谁都打不过
Since that's the case, could Su-35 act like munition trucks, i..e F-15EXs? Staying out of range and lob missiles in BVR mode, while trying not getting into WVR battles as best as possible.

But, considering that the PLAAF only has 24 Su-35s, so it likely doesn't matter much.
 
Top