PLA 39th Army Group maneuvering close to North Korean Border

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
U.S. will use the regime disorder to justify intervention under the name of "restoring humanitarian order" and "recovering rogue nuclear materials", so does the 39th Army Group have special forces that can take over and occupy North Korea nuclear facilities and installation, and does 39th Army Group have Korean language specialists that can facilitate the absorption of unemployed DPRK troops into the PLA over time to prevent lawless bandits from pillaging the countryside?

Also, I hope China has built railways to access Pyongyang Capital Region with swiftness of a coursing river, and with a force of a great typhoon.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
If the operational level capabilities in terms of logistical sustainability and use don't differ very much from newer equipment it wouldn't have much of an effects on the ability for fighting sophisticated mobile war, this is why M60A3s could be use in the first Gulf War along with M1 Abrams tanks in the proper operational deployment.

M60a3 were not used tactically together with m1.

The coalition forces during the first gulf war enjoyed overwhelming technological and numerical superiority, and huge advantage in training as well as junior to middle level leadership. The desert environment also imposed little demand on cross country mobility of the mobile forces. They could do all sorts of things which another mobile force facing a more competent adversary would not be able to do.
 

montyp165

Senior Member
M60a3 were not used tactically together with m1.

The coalition forces during the first gulf war enjoyed overwhelming technological and numerical superiority, and huge advantage in training as well as junior to middle level leadership. The desert environment also imposed little demand on cross country mobility of the mobile forces. They could do all sorts of things which another mobile force facing a more competent adversary would not be able to do.

As I said, they were used in a coordinated fashion on the operational level, not the tactical level, taking advantage of their different strengths to achieve their objectives, and on top of that the Coalition forces didn't have numerical superiority contrary to popular belief. Just because something isn't on the theoretical optimal state doesn't mean things can't be achieved.
 

escobar

Brigadier
If the exercises have any relation to current events in the DPRK, I would say that it would be as a warning to other nations not to try and exploit any situation or to try and change the "Status quo".

It's not the NK million man army or even its nukes that are the biggest deterrents to a US or South Korean attempted invasion/regime change, but China.

Unless China gives the nod, any attempts by the US or SK to effect regime change or unification of the Korean Peninsula by military force will be extremely likely to result in a repeat of the Korean War, with the PLA moving into NK in support of NK forces, and that is something no one wants to see..

Neither China nor US/South Korea want the "Status quo" to change. Nobody wants to have to deal with the "millions" of North Koreans who might come into China or South Korea in case of the regime collapse. I even think it's one of the reasons why the 39th and 38th the two best chinese armies are on the Korean border: Ensure that North Koreans remains in North Korea.
 
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Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
1950: U.S. reluctant to exercise nuclear option on Korea... stalemate...S. Koreans are angry.
1972: Sino-American reapproachment, America ditches KMT/ROC for CCP/PRC... S. Korea probably pissed off.
1975: America ditches South Vietnam to the Communist Vietcong.... S. Korea probably pissed off.
2006: North Korea attains defacto nuclear status with first atomic test... S. Korea probably really pissed off.
2014: China rapidly industrializing with S. Korean and U.S. aid and assistance. S. Korea probably privately angry.

Basically, the trend is strategically unfavorable to S. Korean dependence on unreliable United States defense commitments in the long term, unless S. Korea can autonomously determine her strategic future, but she seems too dependent on U.S. military protection and investment.

That will change too as China inevitable eclipses United States as the world's largest economy with her mammoth population.
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
1950: U.S. reluctant to exercise nuclear option on Korea... stalemate...S. Koreans are angry.
1972: Sino-American reapproachment, America ditches KMT/ROC for CCP/PRC... S. Korea probably pissed off.
1975: America ditches South Vietnam to the Communist Vietcong.... S. Korea probably pissed off.
2006: North Korea attains defacto nuclear status with first atomic test... S. Korea probably really pissed off.
2014: China rapidly industrializing with S. Korean and U.S. aid and assistance. S. Korea probably privately angry.

Basically, the trend is strategically unfavorable to S. Korean dependence on unreliable United States defense commitments in the long term, unless S. Korea can autonomously determine her strategic future, but she seems too dependent on U.S. military protection and investment.

That will change too as China inevitable eclipses United States as the world's largest economy with her mammoth population.

Define long term. Now don't get me wrong, I understand your POV, but I find it hard to believe at this time that S. Korea can ditch the US when it comes to purchasing high tech equipment for defense. Until S. Korea either decides to make a majority of their high tech defense equipment on their own which will cost them a lot of money for R & D, or they can continue to tote the line with the US for a lot less money?
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
@Equation

I understand your point of view, and you are basically saying S. Korea is not strategically independent since it derives good tech and trade benefits from U.S.

Indeed, I think you are correct, S. Korea cannot ditch the alliance unilaterally.

So I think perhaps China should disburse some of her $3.2 trillion dollars foreign reserves to help pay for Unification Reconstruction costs, since it will gain tremendous economic influence buy purchasing Korean treasury bonds to pay for reconstruction of North Korea (projected to be $1-3 trillion dollars).... U.S. on the other hand is kinda bankrupt, unable to contribute to "nation-building" in North Korea.

Insistence of eviction of U.S. troops from Korean peninsula, common enemy of re-militarized Japan, and Chinese purchase of Korean treasury bonds will be good enough to secure unified Korea in China's orbit. The alternative would be war, which nobody wants lol.
 

escobar

Brigadier
So I think perhaps China should disburse some of her $3.2 trillion dollars foreign reserves to help pay for Unification Reconstruction costs, since it will gain tremendous economic influence buy purchasing Korean treasury bonds to pay for reconstruction of North Korea (projected to be $1-3 trillion dollars)

huh, using foreign reserves to pay for NK Reconstruction?? You don't seem to know what foreign reserves are used for.

U.S. on the other hand is kinda bankrupt, unable to contribute to "nation-building" in North Korea.

the funding for a possible reconstruction of NK does not concern China, let alone the US. It's SK problem.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
@Equation

I understand your point of view, and you are basically saying S. Korea is not strategically independent since it derives good tech and trade benefits from U.S.

Indeed, I think you are correct, S. Korea cannot ditch the alliance unilaterally.

So I think perhaps China should disburse some of her $3.2 trillion dollars foreign reserves to help pay for Unification Reconstruction costs, since it will gain tremendous economic influence buy purchasing Korean treasury bonds to pay for reconstruction of North Korea (projected to be $1-3 trillion dollars).... U.S. on the other hand is kinda bankrupt, unable to contribute to "nation-building" in North Korea.

Insistence of eviction of U.S. troops from Korean peninsula, common enemy of re-militarized Japan, and Chinese purchase of Korean treasury bonds will be good enough to secure unified Korea in China's orbit. The alternative would be war, which nobody wants lol.

one, not just the US but the western world as a whole. South Korea is a export heavy market. But with close alliances across the west and east.

Two it would be a foolhardy to unilaterally cut ties. As it would be cutting off your own legs for little but promises.

3.2 Trillion dollars would probably not even start the conversation about a true nation rebuild of North Korea. A few years back NASA for fun assembled using satellite photos a night time globe. If you look at this globe made of millions of satellites photos and look to Asia you see a map of stars each star being lights from the ground. Street lights, homes, office buildings, cars. you could clearly see Japan as a blanket of stars, Taiwan as a blanket of stars, the cities of China mapped out in lights with smaller ones in rural China, south Korea mapped out in detail by lights and in the center of this Black. North Korea with the exception of Pyongyang a void like a black hole. Even Siberia was better lit.
The PRC has invested billions to try and establish a modern economic growth program with North Korea. But the North Koreans are just not interested, in forced reunification the cost of economic development for the North is going to be ringing in a lot more then anything the leadership of the CCP would be willing to lay down.

Phead, The US is not insolvent, she may barrow but she is hardly bankrupt the amount of income vs the amount of interest for loans in the US even with the Obama administration is still decidedly in the US favor. The US remains the top economy and is still capable of expansion. The claims of US bankruptcy are total bull. If they were true why would China be buying? Why would foreign investment still be active? Why would a number of Chinese billionaires have just invested in Detroit?!

oh yes the classic, Japan... Oh... The fear of Japan. Even if Abe were the Demonic nationalists Imperialist Hardliner plotting the conquest of Asia it be a pipe dream. The SDF has a fine navy, fare Army and good Air force but take a second look. The Japanese are aging. There population is falling, military budget is still only .3% of GDP. Every program that has popped up on the radar is not a major breakthrough but a replacement or upgrade, and for each other nations have more or less parity.
sorry but the threat of Japan is a old nightmare, the Bushido spouting Samurai sword wielding soldiers of the past are dead and dying. The book of Bushido is today a book of gulf scores and the Samurai sword is a cane. The remilitarized Japan is a nation that is more or less reactionary. The most offensive action a aging PM visits to a Shinto shrine, a action he actually held off on doing until his attempt at offering a hand to south Korea was answered with insult and his request at negotiations with The PRC replied with demands of surrender. So Abe did what you do when in that situation a political obscene hand gesture.

Finally if Korea were Reunited, The reunited Korean state should in my opinion move to Neutrality. Play at keeping both the US and PRC close but neither to close. A reunification if successful offers a possibility that Korea may become the next great Asian success story. Remember Germany was divided, one side highly industrial the other strictly limited. Reunification nearly bankrupting Germany in the 1990s, today Germany is the European powerhouse and its not all due to China. Establish its own Orbit not play to a others.
 
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