Philippines Vs Taiwan... Troubled Waters

MwRYum

Major
You don't get it. To understand those guys, you need to understand the pirate mentality. They couldn't care less about law enforcement or the crew. They care more about capturing the boat intact. Shooting the engine reduce the value of the boat and it could cause a fire that result in the loss of the boat. Worse, you would have to tow the ship and that slowed you down and allow the *real* law enforcement (i.e. Taiwanese Coast Guard) to catch up. Boats usually are the whole asset and livelihood of the fishermen -- hence the ransom will not exceed the value of the boat. And if the ransom cannot be paid, then the boat is confiscated -- more for the pirates. Hence they would rather kill some of the crew to stop the boat rather than damage the boat. They are simply greedy.

No I do get it, what I don't get is that not only the PCG is utterly pathetic as law enforcement agency, they're just as pathetic as pirates, simply because they failed to destroy the incriminating evidence, aka the fishing boat, and have living witnesses tell the story.

Any self-respecting criminal would know to destroy the evidence.

Perhaps the Philippines is inventing a new category for "failed state"? Y'know, such a pathetic nation makes me wonder the Muslim rebellion down the south might not be a bad thing for them...spread north, putting all those corrupted ruling families to the sword and forge a new path for the Philippine.
 

nemo

Junior Member
No I do get it, what I don't get is that not only the PCG is utterly pathetic as law enforcement agency, they're just as pathetic as pirates, simply because they failed to destroy the incriminating evidence, aka the fishing boat, and have living witnesses tell the story.

Any self-respecting criminal would know to destroy the evidence.

Perhaps the Philippines is inventing a new category for "failed state"? Y'know, such a pathetic nation makes me wonder the Muslim rebellion down the south might not be a bad thing for them...spread north, putting all those corrupted ruling families to the sword and forge a new path for the Philippine.

Perhaps I need to be more precise -- they are pirates with law enforcement pretense. Killing everyone on board would bring too much scrutiny on them. If only some of them are killed, then they are killed when resisting arrest.

Their real business is ransoming the boat, not people -- who they don't give a damn if they have no money. Hence they want to protect the boat from unnecessary damage -- if human are killed, so be it. Again, intact boat-- more ransom. Only when the victims cannot arrange the ransom, they get to confiscate the boat -- again, pretension of law enforcement.

It's hard to counter this kind of pseudo-law enforcement. Short of war, about the only thing you can do is what China did -- protect your boats with your own real law enforcement boats.
 

MwRYum

Major
Perhaps I need to be more precise -- they are pirates with law enforcement pretense. Killing everyone on board would bring too much scrutiny on them. If only some of them are killed, then they are killed when resisting arrest.

Their real business is ransoming the boat, not people -- who they don't give a damn if they have no money. Hence they want to protect the boat from unnecessary damage -- if human are killed, so be it. Again, intact boat-- more ransom. Only when the victims cannot arrange the ransom, they get to confiscate the boat -- again, pretension of law enforcement.

It's hard to counter this kind of pseudo-law enforcement. Short of war, about the only thing you can do is what China did -- protect your boats with your own real law enforcement boats.

Then they failed to even capture that boat, which is so in this case, when they got the boat to make the chase and the firepower to do the job. Which all adds up to utter failure on the PCG, whether as pirates or law enforcement, and that's my point throughout - none in the Philippine government can do anything right, be it under official duties or act as thugs, they couldn't even make a plausible lie, how pathetic is that?
 

mr.bean

Junior Member
Then they failed to even capture that boat, which is so in this case, when they got the boat to make the chase and the firepower to do the job. Which all adds up to utter failure on the PCG, whether as pirates or law enforcement, and that's my point throughout - none in the Philippine government can do anything right, be it under official duties or act as thugs, they couldn't even make a plausible lie, how pathetic is that?

just read a news report from phoenix tv website, the bullet that killed the Taiwan fisherman was 7.62x51 NATO round. so they said it was an M-14 rifle. Philippine coast guard=thugs at sea. I hope the Taiwanese will use this incident and drive all the pinoy coastguard out of that area. how strong is Taiwan's coastguard?
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
just read a news report from phoenix tv website, the bullet that killed the Taiwan fisherman was 7.62x51 NATO round. so they said it was an M-14 rifle. Philippine coast guard=thugs at sea. I hope the Taiwanese will use this incident and drive all the pinoy coastguard out of that area. how strong is Taiwan's coastguard?

Like I said before, the Philippine navy some times recruit pirates. I wasn't exaggerating or sensationalizing when I said that. There have been numerous cases where mainland fishermen conveniently disappeared in disputed waters. Since the are from the mainland, however, you tend not to hear anyone report on them.
 
Then they failed to even capture that boat, which is so in this case, when they got the boat to make the chase and the firepower to do the job. Which all adds up to utter failure on the PCG, whether as pirates or law enforcement, and that's my point throughout - none in the Philippine government can do anything right, be it under official duties or act as thugs, they couldn't even make a plausible lie, how pathetic is that?


Guys. you missed the Official Philippine Government Agency Report. They are not pirates. They were actually in a reality action scene like in the Movie. Presidential Spokeperson Abigail Valte - smirk smirk.

Sarcasm aside. More Philippine Government lies exposed. Philippines inspectors never found any bullet holes on any part of the fishing boat's engine room contradiction their own official report. LIARS or INCOMPETENT FOOLS. Not sure which is worse.

Moreover, The Philippine Coast Guard officers refused polygraph Test.

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It looked like hoot, with six coast guards laughing as they fired at the Taiwanese fishing boat.

“The video showed the soldiers acted unprofessionally. They were laughing while they were shooting the boat,” a source who had seen the video of the Philippine Coast Guard shooting of fishing boat Guang Ta Hsin 28 three weeks ago said Saturday.

“It is disturbing and embarrassing for Philippine law enforcers,” the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told the Inquirer in an interview.

Taiwanese fisherman Hung Shih-chen, 65, was hit and killed in the shooting, which happened during a high-speed chase in waters off Balintang Island in northern Philippines on May 9.

The source said the Coast Guard submitted the video to the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) after President Benigno Aquino III ordered an investigation of the fatal shooting of Hung, which sparked a major diplomatic row between Taiwan and the Philippines.

It was the video that Justice Secretary Leila de Lima described two weeks ago as “very revealing,” but did not disclose its contents.

But that it was very revealing was probably why the Department of Justice initially refused to share the video with Taiwanese investigators, delaying clearance from Taipei for an NBI team to travel to Taiwan to investigate the fatal shooting of Hung.

Not until De Lima allowed the video to be seen by Taiwanese investigators did the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office (Teco), Taiwan’s de facto embassy in Manila, give visas to the eight members of the NBI team.

The source said the video showed the fishing boat, after sailing side by side with the MCS-3001, a patrol vessel owned by the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources but manned by coast guards, peeled away and moved in “circles, as if daring the (Coast Guard vessel to come after it.”

Not raked with gunfire

Contrary to reports, the source said, the coast guards did not rake the fishing boat with gunfire.

“They did not spray it with bullets, but they were laughing as they fired at the fishing boat,” the source said.

The coast guards aimed for what they thought was the engine room to stop the boat, the source said.

But the NBI inspection of the fishing boat at the dockyard on Pingtung Island, southern Taiwan, showed no bullet holes on any part of the engine room.

“There were no bullet holes on the engine room probably because (the coast guards) did not know its location,” the source said.

Two other sources who had seen the video confirmed the statements of the first source.

According to the Coast Guard report on the incident, Cmdr. Arnold de la Cruz, the patrol vessel’s commander, “ordered his men to fire at the fishing vessel when it did not stop after several warnings.”

Philippine waters

One of the two other sources who had seen the video said the shooting happened on the Philippine side, not on the Taiwan side, of overlapping territorial waters between the two countries.

The NBI and Taiwanese investigators ended their parallel probes of the incident on Friday, with the NBI team saying its report would be ready in a “day or two.”

De Lima said the government’s next step would depend on the NBI report, which would contain recommendations.

She said Philippine laws would be followed should the NBI recommend the prosecution of the coast guards involved in the shooting.

Murder charges

The fisherman’s daughter, Hung Tzu-chen, filed murder charges, but did not name anyone in her complaint.

Taiwanese investigators told a news conference on Friday that they could identify the coast guard who fired the bullet that killed Hung through the results of the ballistic tests on the firearms submitted for the probe.

The Taiwanese investigative team returned to Taipei on Friday.

The NBI team, headed by Daniel Daganzo, chief of the bureau’s foreign liaison division, returned to Manila on the same day.
 
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joshuatree

Captain
Guys. you missed the Official Philippine Government Agency Report. They are not pirates. They were actually in a reality action scene like in the Movie. Presidential Spokeperson Abigail Valte - smirk smirk.

Sarcasm aside. More Philippine Government lies exposed. Philippines inspectors never found any bullet holes on any part of the fishing boat's engine room contradiction their own official report. LIARS or INCOMPETENT FOOLS. Not sure which is worse.

Moreover, The Philippine Coast Guard officers refused polygraph Test.



Well, another article states the PCG officers deny even shooting at the boat. So we have several possibilities if we're basing on their explanations.

1) Most of them aimed at the sea or the air. One guy managed to pump 50+ rounds into the fishing boat with different weapons. Must be Rambo.

2) And they were aiming for the cabin intent to kill because the engine room has no bullet holes per inspectors.

Either of those sound absurd but if the Philippines wants to keep walking down this path, its their own choice.


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However Taiwan’s Apple Daily said no Filipino coastguard had admitted to using the M14 rifle.

Eight Filipino coastguard members admitted to opening fire but said they shot at the sky or into the sea rather than the fishing boat, reported the newspaper.
 
Well, another article states the PCG officers deny even shooting at the boat. So we have several possibilities if we're basing on their explanations.

1) Most of them aimed at the sea or the air. One guy managed to pump 50+ rounds into the fishing boat with different weapons. Must be Rambo.

2) And they were aiming for the cabin intent to kill because the engine room has no bullet holes per inspectors.

Either of those sound absurd but if the Philippines wants to keep walking down this path, its their own choice.


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How idiotic can they be when they come up with excuses that they aim for the sea or the air. So somehow the 7.62 rounds cruise-missiled their way back towards the boat? And input the "laughters" that they had while they were firing their weapons, this meant they were either idiotic by laughing while firing their guns into the air, or they are bullying the boat by riddling it with bullets, and I think the latter explanation makes more sense. That just show they tried to deny their own responsibilities and push it for someone else. And of course let's not forget with the 50+ rounds found onboard the boat, a m14 only has 20 rounds.

I truly think a travel advisory to the Philippines should be recommended permanently because this incident aside, this shows how incompetent local government is and how much of a threat this country pose to travelers. But of course my logic would almost mean travel advisory for pretty much all the failed states and the entire continent of South Africa
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
j I hope the Taiwanese will use this incident and drive all the pinoy coastguard out of that area. how strong is Taiwan's coastguard?

Strong enough to put ALL those Filipinos coast guard sailors/pirates subjected to on shore duties only with no ships and even a row boat to play with.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Strong enough to put ALL those Filipinos coast guard sailors/pirates subjected to on shore duties only with no ships and even a row boat to play with.

It's been almost a month since the shooting happened, and what has the TW government managed to achieve? A lot of sound and fury, very little substance.
 
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