Pakistan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Deino said:

No, in at least this forum you should post reasonable theories only and yes, Pakistan surely has all rights to plan, but they have neither the technical capabilities to develop such things alone nor the financial means to afford it from China (I know according to the biggest idiot at the PDF Pakistan can get anything for free from China as long it WANTS!) and even more not really the operational need!

As such, yes for sure we can discuss if India want to develop a Klingon-cloaking device its fine, but then please discuss this not here.

And now again to this personnel issue! Claiming such BS since "brother, I know", is not a reason or a realistic explanation in the same way to claim Pakistan needs an carrier, will get J-35 for them ... and as a counterargument to tell me to shut up since "I have been proven wrong multiple times" is just a lie!

So, either you or he provides proof when I was "lying" like he claimed or you better stop this stupid discussion. And in case you want to continue this stuff, then be prepared to face the consequences .. and that's my final word to such fan-boy stuff!

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Reasonably, I think you are failing to take into account the ability of Pakistan to get security financing from China to fulfill its commitments to China it has made in the GDI, GSI, SCO and BRICS.

In these initiatives China has also committed to Pakistan to provide ToT, local development and the building of a modern industrial and security system in Pakistan with a common development level to China.

Taking this into consideration, I think it’s reasonable to disagree with your assessment of Pakistans capability. You mentioned cost, and technolog.

As part of one of these initiatives China could give Pakistan a 1 billion dollar loan, at 1% interest, over 50 years, the loan would be repaid with revenue they get from providing refueling and replenishment to Chinese and other fleets over the time period. Smart financing like that is what China does now, and it is the answer to the claim that Pakistan can’t afford to have comprehensive and sustainable security.

For ToT, we can observe that China has no issue doing ToT on submarines and frigates, including local production. According to their promises, they will continue doing this.

So, we can’t base your assumptions based on what Pakistan is capable of a few years ago, but you should consider that Pakistan will soon have almost all the same technology, in almost all aspects as China does.

Further, we should not just think of India being Pakistan opponent, because that is not comprehensive. Pakistan must be able to defend themselves from the US and NATO, just like China can.

Andy1974 said:

So, we can’t base your assumptions based on what Pakistan is capable of a few years ago, but you should consider that Pakistan will soon have almost all the same technology, in almost all aspects as China does.

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You don't know how technologically backwards Pakistan is. For example, there is not a single titanium foundry in this country, despite possessing considerable ores; alloys of which are used in the production of various machine components, i.e. engines from 1950s onwards. And that's just raw material processing. Now you can't say you will soon have the same technology as somebody who had this technology 70 years ago and built upon it for 70 years. It's totally illogical, fantastical. Pakistan hasn't yet been able to build something as simple as a motorcycle engine.

What you're saying requires an extensive research and scientific base with decades of experience to even just penetrate an entry into a specific field. These are largely missing in Pakistan, and where they exist, they are very small with a limited scope.

_killuminati_ said:

You don't know how technologically backwards Pakistan is. For example, there is not a single titanium foundry in this country, despite possessing considerable ores; alloys of which are used in the production of various machine components, i.e. engines from 1950s onwards. And that's just raw material processing. Now you can't say you will soon have the same technology as somebody who had this technology 70 years ago and built upon it for 70 years. It's totally illogical, fantastical. Pakistan hasn't yet been able to build something as simple as a motorcycle engine.

What you're saying requires an extensive research and scientific base with decades of experience to even just penetrate an entry into a specific field. These are largely missing in Pakistan, and where they exist, they are very small with a limited scope.

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I haven’t read about Titanium processing in Pakistan, but I have read about steel and concrete and glass, and I am sure China will provide all the technology Pak needs to process its own ores.

Did you know about PakSAT-MM1? it’s their latest communication satellite, they can build their own communications constellations now, they can make their own satellites to do their own communications.

They will get 5.5G this year or early next, which allows remote presence, and is also a radar network. They will have smart factories, with robots, including humanoid ones and full automation. What expertise do they need to build up? China will build the industrial park, fill it with highly automated factories that build all the components a modern society needs.

It doesn’t take decades to built free trade zones and parks, and all those zones and parks will be similar all over the world. And they will all use pretty much the same technologies.

For what it's worth titanium oxide is not that rare to begin with. And Pakistan is not even a leading miner of the ores as far as I know. The problem is processing it to make titanium metal. It requires specialized facilities and many years of investment. Maybe a decade to get an operational facility. It is also a highly energy intensive process. Not something you want to do in a country where energy is expensive.

The propaganda is insane. US Blaming everything and every one (china related) and than placing embargoes and restrictions (which don't work btw).

Good for Pakistan, but I can't help but wonder if the JF-17 programme benefited Pakistan more than it did for China. The co-development model has meant billions in arms sales for Pakistan. Money that could have gone to China if it didn't share the technological know-how. Pakistan would have had no chance to develop its own jet without the help of China.

In a way, the JF-17 project was conceived under very special circumstances which are unlikely to ever materialise again.

mossen said:

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Good for Pakistan, but I can't help but wonder if the JF-17 programme benefited Pakistan more than it did for China. The co-development model has meant billions in arms sales for Pakistan. Money that could have gone to China if it didn't share the technological know-how. Pakistan would have had no chance to develop its own jet without the help of China.

In a way, the JF-17 project was conceived under very special circumstances which are unlikely to ever materialise again.

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China helping an ally was about generosity but also mutual benefit. If Pakistan subsequently grew its wealth from the investment, it deserves it for its subpar economy.

mossen said:

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Good for Pakistan, but I can't help but wonder if the JF-17 programme benefited Pakistan more than it did for China. The co-development model has meant billions in arms sales for Pakistan. Money that could have gone to China if it didn't share the technological know-how. Pakistan would have had no chance to develop its own jet without the help of China.

In a way, the JF-17 project was conceived under very special circumstances which are unlikely to ever materialise again.

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I believe Pakistan used a similar amount of money to buy J-10’CEs and PL-15Es from China, you could say that this sale covers that cost.

Azerbaijan now may also buy missiles from China for their JF-17’s, so it’s really win-win-win for all three.

Further, it gives Azerbaijan a clear next step to acquiring the J-10CE.

Good chance for Egypt to evaluate the J-10C.

gelgoog said:

For what it's worth titanium oxide is not that rare to begin with. And Pakistan is not even a leading miner of the ores as far as I know. The problem is processing it to make titanium metal. It requires specialized facilities and many years of investment. Maybe a decade to get an operational facility. It is also a highly energy intensive process. Not something you want to do in a country where energy is expensive.

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That's what I said. Pakistan cannot then make domestic engines if they don't know how to process the basic raw material (titanium) used for modern compressor blades. So, to say that 'Pakistan will soon possess almost the same technology as China' is quite a stretch because China has been making engines, even crappy subpar ones, for decades while Pakistan doesn't possess the base to even enter the field. That was just a single random example. It is a similar situation in most other fields.