Pakistan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Mohsin77 said:

Yes, however; the Pak Army has never won a war decisively either.

So it's basically a grade C+ warfighting force, given that India is x3 in size and resources. But that's still not nearly good enough, given our strategic requirements. The PAF has always been a better warfighting force, but the Air Force has always been hampered by our Army's strategic and operational idiocy that it displayed in every war that it has fought.

Just look at the Pak Army's ToE and compare it with Pakistan's geography. We have only 2 Armored Divisions, and basically 1000 tanks that are worth anything. That alone tells you a lot about the short-sightedness of the Pak Army, considering its objective of capturing Kashmir (which is connected to India via the plains of Punjab/"Tank Country".) What this shows, is that their officer education and training is ridiculous, since they can't recognize basic problems, let alone come up with innovative solutions to master combined arms maneuver warfare, which is a requirement if your enemy is much bigger than you.

Maybe if the Army wasn't so involved in frekkin real-estate development and politics for the past half a century, they'd focus on their actual fuckin job.

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That point was very enlightening for me where all my life I had heard that the Indian Army can handle any challenge on the western front any day. Well, to be honest, I had heard the same about Indian Army's capabilities against the PLA, but then of course, for any rational mind, that is not something you would anyway believe. But the former narrative is something that has been very convincing given the outcome of all our wars (here I must admit that I have been a victim of all our propaganda).

Military doctrine aside, it is high time for both our countries to solemnly and wholly submit to the PRC's world order. It will automatically resolve all our problems. We need a PRI and a PRP, and add to that a PRK

Steel cutting ceremony of latest warship (OPV) to be developed for PN held in Romania

Leningradpro said:

Military doctrine aside, it is high time for both our countries to solemnly and wholly submit to the PRC's world order.

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China has never had any intention to create a 'Chinese world order.' They don't care about converting people to 'Chineseism.' China just wants the freedom to do its own thing, and it has calculated that the only way to do that is to challenge America's unipolar world order, by beating the US at its own game.

If China succeeds, everyone gets the breathing space to evolve their own system, and then each system will get ranked on merit. So in a way, China is doing a public service for the entire planet right now, and history will always give them credit for this.

Mohsin77 said:

China has never had any intention to create a 'Chinese world order.' They don't care about converting people to 'Chineseism.' China just wants the freedom to do its own thing, and it has calculated that the only way to do that is to challenge America's unipolar world order, by beating the US at its own game.

If China succeeds, everyone gets the breathing space to evolve their own system, and then each system will get ranked on merit. So in a way, China is doing a public service for the entire planet right now, and history will always give them credit for this.

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Zindabad my brother

Absolutely agree with you that China is the only and biggest hope of the world right now. How is that not a new world order? Call it whatever you may, but since China is showing how a superpower should conduct itself, I call it the Chinese world order. And I think it is unfair and naive to think the world will not be affected by what you call "Chineseism". The socialist model will definitely find ground in more and more regions across the world, no matter if China wants to do that or not, as western influences wither away.

Mohsin77 said:

If China succeeds, everyone gets the breathing space to evolve their own system, and then each system will get ranked on merit.

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Strongly disagree with this. Ideologically, there aren't too many variations of how each country can evolve their own systems. It will either be a western style free market or Chinese-style socialism. Everything else will eventually evolve into either of the two systems. And frankly, only one system can survive. Hence, I insist on calling it the Chinese world order. I don't mean China bossing over the world like the US does today.

This thread might not be the ideal place for this discussion though.

Leningradpro said:

I call it the Chinese world order.

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You can call it whatever you want.

China calls it the "multipolar world" in which multiple 'orders' exist.

Leningradpro said:

Ideologically, there aren't too many variations of how each country can evolve their own systems.

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Speak for your own self/country/civilization.

Don't impose your assumptions on everyone else.

Leningradpro said:

This thread might not be the ideal place for this discussion though.

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It's not.

Mohsin77 said:

Speak for your own self/country/civilization.

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Don't dismiss a point as being my assumption just because you don't have anything else to say. It is not my assumption. The Europeans and Americans might be on the backfoot, but they are are not complete fools. This is an ideological war and they know that very well, and are taking very seriously. And President Xi and the CPC are very damn serious about that too. It is simply you who is assuming and those assumptions are frankly very short sighted.

I don't wish to continue this argument. There wasn't an argument to begin with, anyway.

This war that's been waged for a while is not an ideological war. If the anglo led world truly believe this (I doubt it), then they have made grand strategic blunders. The ideological aspect to this war is not much more than the vehicle used to further their hold onto their soft power.

This war is about what wealth and power for influence is in who's pocket. The ideological aspect is dialectical nonsense designed to mislead those into believing it isn't as simple as it is. Think of the ideology as the branding which btw if you notice has been shifting rapidly in short spans of time. It wasn't that long ago that western nations didn't use their latest marketing of neo liberalism wokeism progressiveness etc that many in the west still look fondly upon the "good old days".

Ideology shifts so much with every election cycle alone lol. It's not something to count on or to base your understanding of the world on. I mean we're not talking about religion here. This stuff isn't here to stay.

The war is over who in which country gets to call the shots and owns up more than 33% ( minimum) of the world. I say 33% because very generally as things stand the EU "owns" a third, the US a third and China owns a third. China's stats make it seem like they own less but the Chinese understate always rather than overstate. Factor in China's currency being held down on purpose - partly as part of the l understating and how ridiculously inflated US economic measures are with FIRE sector bullshit and good old reserve currency abuse (happened throughout history) resulting in close to 200% gdp private debt.

The world order is no doubt changed. It has already changed towards multipolarity about ten years ago.

The best thing for the world to avoid now is major world war. If the resistance to the new order (proper multipolarity without ability for resistance), is removed or stands down as they should, then it would be the first and only time in known history this happens.

Multipolarity doesn't mean there isn't a clear superpower though. It's how that power is exercised. Would China be less exploitative of hegemonic status? Who knows but it probably will manifest in different ways. Ie "tributary" status but left alone vs colonised or invaded under western order. The west uses both actually it Rob kills and invades as it pleases where fit but others get tributary status eg Japan.