Olympics 2024 - discussion thread

Lethe

Captain
The testing statistics provided on the World Aquatics
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are quite limited but nonetheless illuminating. Specifically, it would appear that testing rates for Chinese swimmers increased dramatically between 2022 and 2023, with elevated rates continuing into 2024.

The TMZ 23 episode occurred in early 2021 and the investigatory process (CHINADA, WADA, World Aquatics) was concluded by mid-year. If that episode were directly responsible for recent elevated testing rates, one would expect that to occur from 2022 rather than 2023, though it may be that test distribution schedules are determined further in advance.

But not everyone knew about the TMZ 23 case in 2021. From WADA's April 2024
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on the case:

In 2022, the International Testing Agency (ITA) contacted WADA in connection with a tip-off it had received suggesting that the Chinese swimmers’ sample results had been manipulated and/or not properly reported. WADA followed-up on these allegations and liaised with the ITA. Based on these investigations, there was no evidence whatsoever that the sample results had been manipulated or wrongly reported. Rather, the evidence clearly showed that the results had been properly reported by CHINADA. During its discussions with the ITA, WADA’s investigators liaised with investigators from the ITA, and invited WADA’s Science Department to explain its conclusions on the case (based on its review the previous year) to the ITA.

In April 2023, USADA’s investigation department contacted WADA Intelligence & Investigations (I&I) based on a tip-off that it had apparently received alleging that these cases had been hidden and that the informant/source claimed to possess evidence. WADA of course knew that the cases had not been hidden as it had reviewed them with World Aquatics in 2021 and discussed them with the ITA in 2022. WADA therefore advised USADA that it was aware of these cases, which had been reviewed by both its Legal and Science Departments. It made clear that if USADA had any new evidence, it would be willing to review the same and reassess its position, as well as interview USADA’s source. USADA did not respond, and no new evidence was provided.

I would speculate that, as news about the TMZ 23 case began to spread beyond CHINADA/WADA/World Aquatics, increased scrutiny and pressure was applied to those organs that has manifested in the elevated testing rates of Chinese swimmers from 2023 to the present day.

It seems reasonable that the TMZ 23 case would lead to some increased near-term surveillance of Chinese swimmers. While environmental contamination was the most likely explanation for those results, the source and precise mechanism of contamination was never identified. Legitimate testing practices are about risk assessment, and the TMZ 23 episode would seem sufficient to assign an elevated risk profile to China's swimming cohort. However, the dramatically increased rates of testing that have been reported would seem to exceed what is justified by that episode and may well reflect political considerations also, and of course an elevated risk profile does not justify unusually intrusive or disruptive patterns of testing. If recent elevated testing rates of Chinese swimmer are connected directly or indirectly to the TMZ 23 case, then it follows that such elevated surveillance should be temporary in nature and should, in the absence of further unusual episodes, return over time to levels comparable with other nations.

In the short-term, the ITA's Test Distribution Plan for the Paris Olympics is accessible to at least WADA and the IOC. One would assume that China's own coordinating authorities also at least have records of all tests administered to Chinese athletes and the capacity to make enquiries and representations to the relevant international organs to protect their interests.
 
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Ringsword

Junior Member
Registered Member
Before people get carried away with this ...

We generally have to be up about 4+ hours before our first match. There's always 2 warm up routines before the first match - a longer, mobilisation warm up to wake up the body about 3 hours out and then the actual pre-match warm up much closer to the game.

If our first match is at 8am, we have to be up at 4am anyways.

The issue of being up at 6am isn't an issue in itself. It's more an issue of how it actually disrupts your planned itinerary for the day.
- what time is your first match? If it's in the afternoon, then one has the luxury to sleep in, which makes a 6am wake up somewhat disruptive.
- where in your itinerary is the testing window? If it's when you are supposed to be doing warm ups/cool downs/treatment, then it is also quite disruptive.

The timing of 6am may seem bad to a layperson but it isn't always necessarily so. It's where in your routine the testing gets done that determines whether it's disruptive.
The Chinese athletes waking up at 6am or earlier as per their training schedule is absolutely no problem BUT WADA/5 eyes goons shaking/waking me up and disturbing my wake/train/get ready schedule physically and frame of mind is a serious attempt at sabotage pure and simple-do to all or none at all not just Chinese.
 

zbb

Junior Member
Registered Member
It seems reasonable that the TMZ 23 case would lead to some increased near-term surveillance of Chinese swimmers. While environmental contamination was the most likely explanation for those results, the source and precise mechanism of contamination was never identified.

The source of contamination was identified. The hotel kitchen used by the swimmers that tested positive was contaminated with TMZ.

From page 1 of the
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On 15 June 2021, WADA was notified of the decision by CHINADA to accept that 23 swimmers had tested positive in early 2021 for TMZ, after inadvertently being exposed to the substance through food/environment contamination as a result of TMZ detected in the kitchen (including spice containers, the extraction fan above the hob and the drains);

Furthermore, from page 3 of the
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This was thoroughly done in this case and not only was there no evidence pointing towards a doping scenario, but all the existing evidence was supporting the theory of contamination. Indeed, even leaving aside the fact that TMZ was discovered by the Chinese authorities in the kitchen of the hotel, the analytical results – in particular, the fact that all the positive results were within a tight range at low or very low concentrations, as well as the fact that, where athletes were tested more than once, their results fluctuated between negatives and (low-level) positives a few hours apart – were not consistent with an excretion profile of a deliberate ingestion scenario of TMZ, but rather with some form of contamination.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Pan Zhanle interview pre-Paris where he asks the reporter not to air it until after his events because he states that the 46.8 he did in Doha was slow and he wants people to think that's his best so he can blow them away with his real ability at the Olympics. He says he is apparently always consistently well below the 46.8WR mark at the time in training. I'm worried about this kid. He's only 20; the girls might fuck him to death when he gets back home... no more world records...
 
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sndef888

Captain
Registered Member
Update on gold prospects remaining

High chance
2 in table tennis
3 in diving
2 in synchro swimming
5-6 in weightlifting

Possible golds:
~2 in boxing (women's 50kg, 54kg, 66kg and semifinal in 75kg)
~1 in marathon race walk

Currently at 22
Estimated final golds (based on these sports only) are 34-35 (up to 38-40 in best case scenario)

Not including sports I'm unsure of like athletics, sailing, canoeing, taekwondo and team sports where quite a few more could also come.

US has (possibly) another ~5 in athletics, 2 in basketball, 1 in golf, 3 in volleyball and beach volleyball, 1 in women's water polo and ~2-3 in wrestling for a total of ~38-39

Overall I expect US to have slightly more but could be close
 
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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Update on gold prospects remaining

High chance
2 in table tennis
3 in diving
2 in synchro swimming
5-6 in weightlifting

Currently at 22
Estimated final golds (based on these sports only) are 34-35
+0-4 more in boxing (finals in women's 50kg, 54kg, 66kg and semifinal in 75kg)

Not including sports I'm unsure of like athletics, sailing, canoeing and other team sports where quite a few more could also come.

US has (possibly) another ~4 in athletics, 2 in basketball, 1 in golf, 4 in volleyball and beach volleyball, 1 in women's water polo and ~2-3 in wrestling for a total of ~38-39

Overall I expect to have slightly more but could be close
4 is not possible for volleyball because the US is already gone in female beach volleyball. But unfortunatley, the US is favored to win 1 in women's weightifting 71kg because China maxed out quota so we can't send anyone to stop her. Hoping Ecuador can but their clean and jerk is kinda weak. So I guess it evens out LOL.

But do you believe the US is favored to win the other 3 events?
 
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Ringsword

Junior Member
Registered Member
The source of contamination was identified. The hotel kitchen used by the swimmers that tested positive was contaminated with TMZ.

From page 1 of the
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Furthermore, from page 3 of the
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i

Pan Zhanle interview pre-Paris where he asks the reporter not to air it until after his events because he states that the 46.8 he did in Doha was slow and he wants people to think that's his best so he can blow them away with his real ability at the Olympics. He says he is apparently always consistently well below the 46.8WR mark at the time in training. I'm worried about this kid. He's only 20; the girls might fuck him to death when he gets back home... no more world records...
Aren't there many Chinese herbs -ginseng -being the most well known in case he's "depleted" by said girls.BTW I am impressed by his strategic thinking -right out of Sun Tzu's Art of War-"When strong feign weakness..." strategic deception-he's got a brain.
 
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