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MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
AssassinsMace said:
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There's a clip in this report of the firebombing of Jimmy Lai. Yeah they had a camera ready and there was bystander watching. And notice the firebomber throws it on the ground and not any structure. What more says fabricated!
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That's probably the worst staged attempt in human history, especially when it was such a poor showing! When even I can come up with a far more convincing game-plan, that shows the insurgents really don't know how to get things done.

solarz said:
LOL, either that, or the guy throws like Lisa Simpson.
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Y'know, their best developed muscles is their jaw muscles, not their arms or legs, as a recent report on HK's youth physical performance indicated as the worst in the region. So it's either they get paid with peanuts, or they just lack the throwing strength to go far enough to do any genuine damage to constitute "terrorist attack".
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
AssassinsMace said:
Does anyone know if the Hong Kong media is drinking the Kool-Aid or is there a healthy skepticism occurring over the supposed firebombing?
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By what I can read, it just failed to generate any spin on all other local media outlet, not even those known "columnists" with famous anti-government stance, simply because it just look too fake - face it, a slightly seared patch of driveway with just ONE Molotov Cocktail is nowhere near to qualify as genuine terrorist attack, even one with half a brain left can tell you that in a heartbeat.

Y'know, if they've had done it by my version of it, then they'd have the desired result...but what do Jimmy Lai expect when he pays with peanut?
 
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
The colour footage looks fairly real. I'm sure there are anti-Jimmy Lai people who don't throw like American football quarterbacks, so the fact the attacker "throws like a girl" doesn't mean this wasn't a real attack.

It's good that this wasn't a very serious attack - no one hurt and only cosmetic damage done.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Mr T said:
*omitted*
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Then it's really fortunate that only with so very few of humanity that it managed to generate the desired spin effect.

But it's worth to note that both sides are carefully testing the waters and see which way the public opinion goes, so this is more likely just one small step in the grand scheme of things, alas an unsuccessful one as it failed to generate the desired spin towards the insurgent's favor.

The another event would be CE's openly accusing the insurgents' call for separatism during the policy address yesterday:
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Gloves off as CY Leung targets student 'lies'
Wednesday, 14 January, 2015, 11:05pm
News›Hong Kong
2015 POLICY ADDRESS
Tony Cheung, Stuart Lau and Peter So
City enjoys a 'high degree of autonomy' not an absolute one, says CY as he slams articles on self-determination for misstating the facts
In a rare combative gesture, Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying hit out directly at student leaders at the start of his annual policy address, attacking them for "putting forward fallacies" concerning nationalism and self-determination for Hong Kong.

Leung slammed students for "advocating independence" in the University of Hong Kong Student Union magazine Undergrad. He also criticised a book published by Undergrad in September last year entitled Hong Kong Nationalism.

Leung started his speech by outlining the key choices that Hong Kong faces in its economic and political development. He explained that under the "one country, two systems" principle, Hong Kong enjoys a "high degree of autonomy" and not an absolute one.

Previous policy addresses have rarely tackled Hong Kong's level of autonomy that directly.

Leung went on to say: "The February 2014 issue of Undergrad … featured a cover story entitled 'Hong Kong people deciding their own fate' … A book named Hong Kong Nationalism was published by Undergrad. It advocates that Hong Kong should find a way to … self-determination.

"Undergrad and other students … have misstated some facts. We must stay alert. We also ask political figures … to advise them against putting forward such fallacies," Leung urged.

Leung also dismissed a popular slogan during the 79-day Occupy Central protests, "Hong Kong shall resolve Hong Kong's problems" as unconstitutional.

There was an immediate reaction from students. Government and law student Brian Leung Kai-ping, editor-in-chief for both of the targeted publications, countered that they were both intended to be analyses of academic issues, examining Hong Kong's history and identity.

He claimed that the book's distributor Sino United Publishing had stopped selling copies to retailers at the start of the Occupy protests and had confirmed to him yesterday that it would not change its mind. Sino United Publishing could not be reached for comment last night.

Alex Chow Yong-kang, secretary general of the Federation of Students, said on his Facebook page that the chief executive's comments revealed his "extreme mindset". "He's even suspicious of remarks made in student magazines … it proves that he lives in the world of [pro-Beijing newspapers] Wen Wei Pao and Ta Kung Pao, and can't tolerate students' independence, freedom and defiance," he added.

"He is trying all he can to defame student activists after Beijing's pressure on him following the Occupy protests."

In a press conference later, the chief executive argued the February Undergrad issue did not reflect an accurate understanding of the city's constitutional status.

He dismissed suggestions that his comments undermined academic freedom and freedom of expression in Hong Kong because the articles were "not academic works" but were instead advancing an argument. He pointed out that officials also enjoyed freedom of speech.

Executive Council convenor Lam Woon-kwong backed the chief executive, saying: "Any promotion or advocacy of independence is totally inappropriate."

But Financial Secretary John Tsang Chun-wah showed no support for Leung's words and declined to comment. "I think we should allow him to justify that ... This is his opinion," he said.

An HKU spokesman said the university cherished freedom of speech for its staff and students and recognised the autonomy of the student union, adding: "We trust that the union will be able to manage its own affairs and to take responsibility for them,"

A statement from the university's student union said: "The whole campus of HKU elected the editor-in-chief and the deputy [of Undergrad], with the vote count several times bigger than that of the small-circle chief executive election. With no members of the student union ever casting any doubt on the Undergrad's comments, how unnecessary it is for the chief executive to make a fuss about it."
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It should be noted that such material is known to public about half a year before the insurgency kicked off last year, but for any government officals to wave it around openly that's a first.

So now the out in the open, things won't get any better until Beijing finally put the insurgency down, hard.
 
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solarz

solarz

Brigadier
MwRYum said:
Then it's really fortunate that only with so very few of humanity that it managed to generate the desired spin effect.

But it's worth to note that both sides are carefully testing the waters and see which way the public opinion goes, so this is more likely just one small step in the grand scheme of things, alas an unsuccessful one as it failed to generate the desired spin towards the insurgent's favor.

The another event would be CE's openly accusing the insurgents' call for separatism during the policy address yesterday:
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It should be noted that such material is known to public about half a year before the insurgency kicked off last year, but for any government officals to wave it around openly that's a first.

So now the out in the open, things won't get any better until Beijing finally put the insurgency down, hard.
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I would not call them "insurgents". Not at all.

Like Li Ao once said, the first rule of an insurgent is, you must be willing to die for your cause. No one in the OC would be wiling to do that. Hence why they're only agitators.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
MwRYum said:
...CE's openly accusing the insurgents' call for separatism.
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I think it is way too soon to call these people "insurgents," MwRYum.

That term is labeling them with a name that would require much more serious consequences and reaction from the PRC than what their current activities warrant.

Let's not label people in such a way unless it is absolutely warranted.
 
P

PanAsian

Major
On a positive note for a better future this is the kind of program if done correctly will decrease ignorance and prejudice (very much demonstrated by the HK protesters) and increase open-mindedness and understanding among HKers and mainlanders alike: a local HK news report in Cantonese with Traditional Chinese subtitles and text about the HK government proposing funding exchange programs for HK primary and secondary school students (US grades 1-12 and 13 which doesn't have an exact equivalent) to visit other parts of China. The report interviews educators who say that in order for such a program to be successfully educational there needs to be some guidelines including on where to go (for example not to Guangdong province neighboring HK where differences are minimal relative to anywhere else in China), educational pre-work and follow-up, and logistical, staff training, and organizational support.

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The idea is in the right direction, hope it is executed well. I also wish there was something like this for American students to travel and live in different parts of the US, preferably in different socio-economic environments. The differences across the country here are as varied as in China, and being a democracy it would hopefully facilitate more common understanding for everyone to work together with. Given current trends it probably won't be a government funded program and would be something like the reality TV show "Wife Swap".
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
There can't really be any understanding since it's unclear what is the ultimate goal. First it was complaining about mainland Chinese behavior. Then it was about creating their own identity. Then it was mainlanders causes prices to rise. Then it was wanting democracy but they weren't seeking independence. Then the violent ones were for independence. And this is a result of separate agendas and different voices. And that's why there will not be any understanding because all the people protesting the HK authority aren't on the same page themselves.

Also we're living in an era where people are fast and loose with the definitions. Sony Pictures was not a victim of terrorism but that how it's generally being portrayed. I don't need to remind people how the definition of terrorism changes depending on the circumstances especially when it comes to who's accused and who's the victim. You just have to look at how insurgents in Iraq were changed to terrorists. No one was killed in the protests in Hong Kong but now because of Jimmy Lai, the authorities he's been working against are now being associated with the terrorism in Paris? How easy it is for it to roll out of their tongues but when the tables are turned...

These activists have been whining that they're being monitored and spied upon. So? Obama does it so it must be all right. I know someone who was active in protests at UC Berkeley almost two decades ago. Well apparently unbeknownst to her someone got her name and took pictures just for participating in legal protests because every time she goes to the airport she's taken out of line for an extensive search of her belongings and asked questions of her protests two decades ago. If China did or does that, it would be considered a human rights violation.
 
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MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Jeff Head said:
I think it is way too soon to call these people "insurgents," MwRYum.

That term is labeling them with a name that would require much more serious consequences and reaction from the PRC than what their current activities warrant.

Let's not label people in such a way unless it is absolutely warranted.
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That's a bunch which, while brand themselves as more "enlightened" then the generations before them and see themselves as revolutionaries that blazing the path a glorious revolution, at its core still bunch of spoiled brats that want everything delivered to them on a silver plate, up to and including the chance of martyrdom...only that the government denied them that too, and ultimately they running out of steam.

Are they insurgents, then? Out of their various demands does include regime change, and on various major confrontations they did attack police officers (which, mind you, even in the US that'd warrant deadly response); their off-site "arsenal" was raid and its operator was chanting separatist slogans when got dragged away; so if not for their impotence, they'd might be the new generation of insurgents.

AssassinsMace said:
There can't really be any understanding since it's unclear what is the ultimate goal. First it was complaining about mainland Chinese behavior. Then it was about creating their own identity. Then it was mainlanders causes prices to rise. Then it was wanting democracy but they weren't seeking independence. Then the violent ones were for independence. And this is a result of separate agendas and different voices. And that's why there will not be any understanding because all the people protesting the HK authority aren't on the same page themselves.

Also we're living in an era where people are fast and loose with the definitions. Sony Pictures was not a victim of terrorism but that how it's generally being portrayed. I don't need to remind people how the definition of terrorism changes depending on the circumstances especially when it comes to who's accused and who's the victim. You just have to look at how insurgents in Iraq were changed to terrorists. No one was killed in the protests in Hong Kong but now because of Jimmy Lai, the authorities he's been working against are now being associated with the terrorism in Paris? How easy it is for it to roll out of their tongues but when the tables are turned...

These activists have been whining that they're being monitored and spied upon. So? Obama does it so it must be all right. I know someone who was active in protests at UC Berkeley almost two decades ago. Well apparently unbeknownst to her someone got her name and took pictures just for participating in legal protests because every time she goes to the airport she's taken out of line for an extensive search of her belongings and asked questions of her protests two decades ago. If China did or does that, it would be considered a human rights violation.
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They're a bunch of flip-flop, as you'd expect of late teens, but never did they properly reflect on their own actions (as a matured ones should've)...at the height of the coloured revolution, they told everyone (especially nay-sayers) to sod off as the future is theirs and them alone; but when the revolution ran out of steam and ultimately falters, they blame the same bunch for not supporting them! What logic!?

They overly reliant on strong language, rude gestures and other gangster-ish methods to intimidate silence out of others, instead of truly work their hearts out to win hearts and minds - support for them were primary out of "grandparents spoiling grandkids" kind of mentality, but when they began to show their true thuggish face, other than the die-hards public support began to dry up, that's why the coloured revolution ultimately falters.
 
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