Only reporting half the story in a misleading way has been the hallmark of Western media and English coverage articles on the protests in Hong Kong. Almost every article quotes the "100,000 protesters at the peak of the protests which have since dwindled" without mentioning how many protesters it has dwindled to. The answer for several weeks by now would be fluctuating in the hundreds. Out of a population of 7+ million a few hundred is a very small number. The peak number is significant but even then it accounts for less than 1 out of 70+ people.
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Only reporting half the story in a misleading way has been the hallmark of Western media and English coverage articles on the protests in Hong Kong. Almost every article quotes the "100,000 protesters at the peak of the protests which have since dwindled" without mentioning how many protesters it has dwindled to. The answer for several weeks by now would be fluctuating in the hundreds. Out of a population of 7+ million a few hundred is a very small number. The peak number is significant but even then it accounts for less than 1 out of 70+ people.
Doombreed
Junior Member
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams
The same argument has been had before every revolution. I say this is a false dichotomy you're proposing. The choice isn't authoritarianism and wealth, or democracy and chaos. What if the choice is authoritarianism and wealth, or democracy and wealth?
Again, let me say this one more time with feelings, no one here is saying give democracy to Mainland China. People are asking for democracy for Hong Kong. Hong Kong is no different to Korea, or Taiwan, or Singapore. Who are you to decide that Hong Kong is different and democracy wouldn't work out there?
cn_habs
Junior Member
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams
The same argument has been had before every revolution. I say this is a false dichotomy you're proposing. The choice isn't authoritarianism and wealth, or democracy and chaos. What if the choice is authoritarianism and wealth, or democracy and wealth?
Again, let me say this one more time with feelings, no one here is saying give democracy to Mainland China. People are asking for democracy for Hong Kong. Hong Kong is no different to Korea, or Taiwan, or Singapore. Who are you to decide that Hong Kong is different and democracy wouldn't work out there?
When did Singapore become democratic?
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams
The same argument has been had before every revolution. I say this is a false dichotomy you're proposing. The choice isn't authoritarianism and wealth, or democracy and chaos. What if the choice is authoritarianism and wealth, or democracy and wealth?
Again, let me say this one more time with feelings, no one here is saying give democracy to Mainland China. People are asking for democracy for Hong Kong. Hong Kong is no different to Korea, or Taiwan, or Singapore. Who are you to decide that Hong Kong is different and democracy wouldn't work out there?
The false oversimplification that you're repeating is that "China needs to give Hong Kong democracy" as if Hong Kong doesn't already have many democratic processes and as if China is not planning to democratize Hong Kong further.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
China knows that US is somehow involved in this OC protest. NED and the like organization are detected to be active in planning this.
My question is this: Does China do something like that in US in return? Like supporting Black Movement?
Basically, America does this a lot overseas, but does anybody do it to US and in US?
My question is this: Does China do something like that in US in return? Like supporting Black Movement?
Basically, America does this a lot overseas, but does anybody do it to US and in US?
Doombreed
Junior Member
So what's the problem? Why so hang up on this whole nominating committee thing? Give Hong Kong universal sufferage and everyone's happy. The CCP would look reasonable, magnanimous and reformed. Hell, Hong Kong election is a glorified Mayoral election anyway. What are they gonna do? Seceded? Turn the water off! What the CCP is doing now with the "patriotism" clause, just stinks of paranoia. It's echoing Brezhnev, which only paved the way for Gorbachev.
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AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
You can say the same thing about Grand Juries. If the evidence supports then go to court. But then the idea of a jury of your peers by law is unpredictable which is why there are Grand Juries to bypass.
Because Hong Kong is under Chinese jurisdiction. We really don't have to go any further than that.
I agree that it is ridiculous to use false dichotomies, everything is on a scale. Economic success, authoritarianism, and democracy, etc, all lie on a spectrum. They are not absolutes nor are they mutually exclusive or inclusive.
Simply put, they don't think giving HK unregulated universal sufferage is in their best interests. If you can convince them otherwise you should go for it.
It is better to prevent to prevent HK from having the ability to even begin to think about seceding rather than treating the problem once it emerges.
Like in healthcare, prevention is more efficient than treatment. In war, deterrence is better than fighting.
Same principles, really.
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Doombreed
Junior Member
The very definition of authoritarianism.
Nailed it. It was never about what's good for Hong Kong.
I think a little bit of self introspection is needed here. What is it about the CCP that even your own people don't want to be with you? Maybe a more enlightened government should think about how to make your governance more attractive so people don't want to leave, rather than forcing them to stay...
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