Number of Ships PLAN must have to be supreme

IDonT Crewing problem can be addressed easily with intensive trainings on the sea, ofcourse if you build more ships you need to train your crews more it was already actually a cycle.

Regarding the F18 E/F these are expensive, this will be questionable actually if US will deploy a lot of these aircrafts, US is now focusing of its F22 and we should not forget the most comonly used aircraft by US and its allies was F14, F15, F16's and these cannot match the latest anti aircraft missiles of China which has far longer range than the anti ship missiles attatched to these aircrafts.

Regarding South Korea, China was the 4th largest economy in the world while South Korea was 11th with this gap we can clearly see China has far more resources than Korea and with more resourcs you will already have an edge in an arms race.

Regarding Japan they already have a huge debt with 150% of their GDP and I don't think they will be willing to spend more for the military rather than trimming down their huge debt.

If the guidance systems of the missiles were not good enough for a very fast speed of anti ship missiles, as long as China have the ship itself already you can just simply upgrade them with new devices and weapons systems as you continue to develop the technology.

petty officer1 I am not reffering to build these ships for a decade I am reffering also to shipyard expansion in order to build all of these probably within 5 years of time.

As we all have seen, it will be extremely difficault for the PLAN to truly make itself a blue water navy AND catch up with the USN. Well, if you can't win by the rules of the game, play a different game.

China should first establish rudimentary blue-water capability, such as an infrastructure of logistics, amphibious capability beyond Taiwan and the ability to defeat all the reigonal navies.

Then China should increase its advantage in areas that it is already ahead in to defeat the USN. This would consist of improving its anti-ship missles and making large amounst of expendable fast attack craft firing deadly accurate missles in (relatively) large quantities. This would be followed up by atttacks from frigates and DDGs that can cover themselves with SAMs. All the while ballistic missles are raining down on the USN's heads.

Also, like I have always said, the PLAN needs an Indian Ocean base to safeguard its oil supplies aggainst potential rivals *cough* India *cough*

Lee Delbert: Yes, China is the 4st largest economy in the world, but in contrast it also have to take care of and satisfy the largest population in the world.

But china is smart enough to not do that. Most chinese advance ships(include subs) is used more as testing platform(For now). Build them to conduct test and play war game and joint excercise with other nation to gain experience.

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I been trying to said that for my last 2 post.

Regarding the F18 E/F these are expensive, this will be questionable actually if US will deploy a lot of these aircrafts, US is now focusing of its F22 and we should not forget the most comonly used aircraft by US and its allies was F14, F15, F16's and these cannot match the latest anti aircraft missiles of China which has far longer range than the anti ship missiles attatched to these aircrafts.

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This F-18 E/F are deploy in US CVG, they a able to launch Harpoon at the PLAN DDG outside the range of their air defence range and these plane has a combat radius of about 700km effectively keep the US CVG out PLAN anti ship missile range.

That why the chinese need a 1000+ km preferable 1500km anti ship cruise missile and an operational AEW&C system.

1) It would give PLAN the capablity or a chance of hitting back at the CVG if any hostile occur.
2) Limiting INS Aircraft Carrier advantage if India decide to obstruct oil supplies in the Indian Ocean.

PLAN resource should be use into improve it training progam, techology, gaining experience, improving infrastructure and logistics.

Once again China, should not waste resource of building the size of it navel until it's truely ready for in one. But it does need to have a force capble of making people think twice before doing anything.

Finn McCool said:

As we all have seen, it will be extremely difficault for the PLAN to truly make itself a blue water navy AND catch up with the USN. Well, if you can't win by the rules of the game, play a different game.

China should first establish rudimentary blue-water capability, such as an infrastructure of logistics, amphibious capability beyond Taiwan and the ability to defeat all the reigonal navies.

Then China should increase its advantage in areas that it is already ahead in to defeat the USN. This would consist of improving its anti-ship missles and making large amounst of expendable fast attack craft firing deadly accurate missles in (relatively) large quantities. This would be followed up by atttacks from frigates and DDGs that can cover themselves with SAMs. All the while ballistic missles are raining down on the USN's heads.

Also, like I have always said, the PLAN needs an Indian Ocean base to safeguard its oil supplies aggainst potential rivals *cough* India *cough*

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I think your multi-pronged approach accurately describes the current decision-making of the Chinese leadership: rudimentary blue-water navy, cutting-edge "assymetrical technologies" and maintaining a viable nuclear deterrent (with Jin and Shang class subs).

I would add that you might be mistaken about not being able to catch up to the USN. US technological edge is based on the US economy. A growing number of observers have been saying that the US economy is a big speculative bubble and a "readjustment" is likely in the near future.

Finally, I don't see why China has to be rivals with India.

Yes yes.

Nihon Kaigun, I've seen enough of it already. Nearly 60 destroyers and 20-30 world class SSKs, I think Japan has far too much for her needs. Anyway thats just my opinion.

China's pace is satisfactory, no need to rush it more. This was some growth rate not many expected to see, and now in the last six years, PLAN has acquired some 60+ ships...from destroyers to auxilaries, from SSKs to Landing craft...any more or faster growth will not be currency managable or personnel changes too.

Just wait till China finalizes its destroyer and frigate designs, then you may see series production begin.

I think China should be in a position to have a bigger and more powerful navy though. Afterall, I think if everyone did look at China's perspective, China is surrounded by decent sized threats.

Whereas everyone in Asia is responding to China's growth, China has to deal with quite a few GROWING navies...China has the right to modernize and expand as long as it does not happen in a sudden burst of rate like that during the Cold War.

Japan far out...thats one heck of a powerful navy and I'm not liking it at all.

Korea...yea, building those AAW destroyers.

USN...still maintains dominance and its not in number of ships, its in the capability of their platforms.

Russian Navy...already outnumbered, why is Russia anymore concerned about PLAN?

Australia...those guys have big egos...again an expanding navy.

Even in 2010, Japan's Navy would still be superior to the PLA Navy. However, by 2020, the PLAN would have achieved a breakthrough in nuclear submarine, diesel submarine, and destroyer technology that would allow PLAN to have the second-best Navy second only to USN Pacific Fleet between the year 2030-2040.

So, obviously, it would take PLAN another 3 decades before it truly reaches "blue-water capability".

I dun see the Japanese surface fleet to be that strong. The 4 Konga class as go they are as good as the USN AB DDG. BUt everything the 50 destory are armed with Sea Sparrow with expection of the 9 DDG (Konga: SM-2, the other SM-1), SSM-1B (150KM) or Harpoon AsM.
There sub and ASW capability is what make it the navy powerful.

China 3 Sovremenny with one more coming and all these need genation of DDG (2 TYPE 052C, 2 TYPE 052B and 2 TYPE 051C) and 19 older DDG. If PLAN can give the crew enough training it has one of strongest DDG force in Asia.

The TYPE 054 I think it a good ship, with good over all capability.

It a good idea to build a Type 054 to escort each of the TYPE 052C and TYPE 051C. I like the idea of a combind air defence of Altair RIF/ HQ-9 medium- to long-range, HQ-7 (FM-90) combind with AK-630/ Type 730 Short to point defence. It should be quite capable if they get the rite training.

This F-18 E/F are deploy in US CVG, they a able to launch Harpoon at the PLAN DDG outside the range of their air defence range and these plane has a combat radius of about 700km effectively keep the US CVG out PLAN anti ship missile range.

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So? thw harpoon is slow and can be shot down by the hq-9 or a CIWS. If China chooses to opearte its destroyers near shore, ground aircraft can handle the f-18s, along with SAMs.

That why the chinese need a 1000+ km preferable 1500km anti ship cruise missile and an operational AEW&C system.

1) It would give PLAN the capablity or a chance of hitting back at the CVG if any hostile occur.
2) Limiting INS Aircraft Carrier advantage if India decide to obstruct oil supplies in the Indian Ocean.

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for the most part, china and india are friends and soon possible co-memebers of the SCO. Relations wont deteriorate so quickly, and by the time they do, china will have it's own carrier. But, yes a 1500 crusie missle would be nice.

So? thw harpoon is slow and can be shot down by the hq-9 or a CIWS.

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Slow, but exceptionally low which make it harder to engage and under certain weather condition hard to detect at long range. But the same go for the yj-62.

If China chooses to opearte its destroyers near shore, ground aircraft can handle the f-18s, along with SAMs.

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Ground aircraft yes, but not SAM the HQ-9 has an maximum range of 200km and S-300PMU has 90km, while the Harpoon has an max operation range of greater then 112km the SLAM-ER has an operation range of over 278 which mean the f-18 can release their missile outside the SAM range.

for the most part, china and india are friends and soon possible co-memebers of the SCO. Relations wont deteriorate so quickly, and by the time they do, china will have it's own carrier. But, yes a 1500 crusie missle would be nice.

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India may join SCO or they may also join US book of allied.

Think China is going to take a lesson from the Iraq War and apply it to naval doctrine; the US cannot fight an assymetrical war. So China will give itself a navy capable of defeating any regional navy, but will not use its capital ships to fight the US. It would use expendable DDGs, FACs, and subs to fire as many missles at an isolated CBG and overwhelm the defences. I wrote quite a bit about it on Defence Talk.

To deal with reigonal navies, then yes, the Chinese should aim for a fleet that is capable in all areas and is capable of defending itself.