News on China's scientific and technological development.

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's an effective strategy. Within Chinese government, there are lots of westernized market-oriented liberals who favour foreign products while looking down at domestic alternatives. Many faithfully worship buying oversea is much better than building its own because it shows up on economic performance indicators much faster. Better KPI usually results in better chances of promotion.

Since Chinese DUV technology is appearing. ASML is just gaming the system, hoping those liberals would again lobby for them. This strategy really depends on how serious china is about promoting domestic chip alternatives. If the government doesn't take actions to protect fragile 100% indigenous chip manufacturing, foreign suppliers have a fair chance. I say that because so far i haven't seen any legal requirements for Chinese foundries to use at least some indigenous machines. Since people usually follow their own interest first, legal requirements are necessary.
Indeed. I just hope that ASML would end up in the "unreliable supplier list" so a legal measure that hinders its access to China and domestic supplier get preferable position.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Indeed. I just hope that ASML would end up in the "unreliable supplier list" so a legal measure that hinders its access to China and domestic supplier get preferable position.
We have passed the point of no return.

Forced to use Mao's internal self-reliance ideas.

This time it is different though. China has more than a few cards to play.

Companies like ASML, who are caught in the crossfire, just give them one chance, and it has to be soon, otherwise, they cut off from the China market permanently.

Nothing personal, just business.

:)
 

texx1

Junior Member
Indeed. I just hope that ASML would end up in the "unreliable supplier list" so a legal measure that hinders its access to China and domestic supplier get preferable position.

Hate to say this. I am pessimistic about the whole "unreliable entity list". The list itself had a long difficult birth, it was on and off again for almost two years. The shy nature of list had long became a common joke on the Chinese social media. IMO, it is more for domestic consumption, CCP could no longer afford to appear so weak in front of its own people.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Hate to say this. I am pessimistic about the whole "unreliable entity list". The list itself had a long difficult birth, it was on and off again for almost two years. The shy nature of list had long became a common joke on the Chinese social media. IMO, it is more for domestic consumption, CCP could no longer afford to appear so weak in front of its own people.
That is a difficult list to put forth.

I mean, you cannot put companies on that list who are lobbying intensely on your behalf.

Chinese are Chinese, the Chinese are not Soviets when it comes to business.

Case in point, go after Intel? Sure, but they selling their chips to Hauwei server business, which should be huge and a game changer.

Banning circuit boards and restricting rare earth from US weapons makers much easier to do.

It is a very short list because the CCP does not have many companies that deserve to be on it. One company should be on it is HSBC. But it seems to me they attacking them in different ways.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
I suppose the primary purpose of it is for Central Asian and Russia. But I really don't understand why they got stuck to the broad gauge. After all, new HSR tracks are going to be new constructions, what is the point of sticking to a different gauge standard? For pride only? Neither do I see validity of old arguments for the difference at the beginning of the railway history in today's condition.
Well even if they are going to construct new tracks, it’s unlikely that all inventory in the target countries can be changed at the same time... the new tracks even tho rated for HSR will still be able to serve older trains... also with this switching apparatus old tracks can be used immediately tho the train can’t travel at HSR speeds but it can still facilitate use of higher speed trains that can slow down and speed up where possible/necessary and the cost will be limited to the train rather then the whole system needing to be replaced.

There are also the HSR line built by different countries like the Japanese gauges or European ones... not all HSR lines are built by China after all and even if they are the target countries might have their own requirements... and this system makes it so that Chinese trains can travel on their tracks whilst their can’t travel around. Whether it’s worth it, don’t know... but better to have an advantage then not...
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Hate to say this. I am pessimistic about the whole "unreliable entity list". The list itself had a long difficult birth, it was on and off again for almost two years. The shy nature of list had long became a common joke on the Chinese social media. IMO, it is more for domestic consumption, CCP could no longer afford to appear so weak in front of its own people.
as @horse has made very good answer, I want to stress the point "it is not personal" once more, China does not hate these foreign companies. They are in the list because they can not reliably deliver their product for whatever reasons, not because they are enemy of China. So we have to be careful and selective of who ends up in the list.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Well even if they are going to construct new tracks, it’s unlikely that all inventory in the target countries can be changed at the same time... the new tracks even tho rated for HSR will still be able to serve older trains... also with this switching apparatus old tracks can be used immediately tho the train can’t travel at HSR speeds but it can still facilitate use of higher speed trains that can slow down and speed up where possible/necessary and the cost will be limited to the train rather then the whole system needing to be replaced.

There are also the HSR line built by different countries like the Japanese gauges or European ones... not all HSR lines are built by China after all and even if they are the target countries might have their own requirements... and this system makes it so that Chinese trains can travel on their tracks whilst their can’t travel around. Whether it’s worth it, don’t know... but better to have an advantage then not...
You don't do it. The old trains will just block the bullet trains and kill the whole idea of HSR. No countries who built HSR do that, poor or rich.

Japan, South Korea, European (France, Germany and Spain) and Canada (Bombadier) all use standard gauge as China does. These are the only countries that make HSR rolling stock or related systems.

I have thought of all the possible explanations including the two before I made the first post on the subject. :)
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
You don't do it. The old trains will just block the bullet trains and kill the whole idea of HSR. No countries who built HSR do that, poor or rich.

Japan, South Korea, European (France, Germany and Spain) and Canada (Bombadier) all use standard gauge as China does. These are the only countries that make HSR rolling stock or related systems.

I have thought of all the possible explanations including the two before I made the first post on the subject. :)
Well then I stand corrected
 

texx1

Junior Member
That is a difficult list to put forth.

I mean, you cannot put companies on that list who are lobbying intensely on your behalf.

Chinese are Chinese, the Chinese are not Soviets when it comes to business.

Case in point, go after Intel? Sure, but they selling their chips to Hauwei server business, which should be huge and a game changer.

Banning circuit boards and restricting rare earth from US weapons makers much easier to do.

It is a very short list because the CCP does not have many companies that deserve to be on it. One company should be on it is HSBC. But it seems to me they attacking them in different ways.

I can understand China is hesitant about putting tech companies on the list since many of them still provide currently irreplaceable tech products to Chinese films. I do take issue with HSBC not being on it though. Its actions on Huawei and Hong Kong's unrest are more than enough to be on the list. I am aware of that covertly China seems to be taking some actions against HSBC. Although this just further lends credit to the well-known secret that HSBC helped many Chinese bureaucrats transferring assets overseas, an all-out war is in nobody's interest.
 
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texx1

Junior Member
as @horse has made very good answer, I want to stress the point "it is not personal" once more, China does not hate these foreign companies. They are in the list because they can not reliably deliver their product for whatever reasons, not because they are enemy of China. So we have to be careful and selective of who ends up in the list.

I agree. It's just CCP should be careful of appearing appeasing the foreigners too much. Despite the great fire wall, younger generations of Chinese are better educated and many are acutely aware of west's ongoing effort to cripple China. Unlike the older generations who didn't grow up during the rise, they are increasingly difficult to satisfy with meaningless platitudes issued by the governmental ministries. Hope CCP doesn't wait too long, everyone has a limit to inaction.
 
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