News on China's scientific and technological development.

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
urss in the 40's reverse engineered the nuclear bomb and b-29 to launch it (tu-4 bull). And china can't reverse engineer in 2020's a dutch litography machine with a us lenses? With 7 million scientific graduates every year? China will succumb to policies of a deranged racist debt ridden billionaire caricature (donald Trump) ?
IT can reverse engineer, but in meantime there are no chips, no cash flow, only government support. Lot of government support.

At the same time the USA developing the chips with case flow generated by selling the chips to China.
 

styx

Junior Member
Registered Member
IT can reverse engineer, but in meantime there are no chips, no cash flow, only government support. Lot of government support.

At the same time the USA developing the chips with case flow generated by selling the chips to China.

the entire industry of semiconductor manufactory machines and litography is about 60 80 billion dollars... Applied materials has a revenue of 17 billions. Not a great market. The greatest revenue of smic comes by relatively low tech chips.
 
Last edited:

mderfox

New Member
Registered Member
urss in the 40's reverse engineered the nuclear bomb and b-29 to launch it (tu-4 bull). And china can't reverse engineer in 2020's a dutch litography machine with a us lenses? With 7 million scientific graduates every year? China will succumb to policies of a deranged racist debt ridden billionaire caricature (donald Trump) ?
Military used completely different with civilian. In military, can copy 100% without paying patent. Civilian is different story, competitors will design patent even if we can surmount the cost will become higher. Pioneer have advantage as pioneer they can research at low cost and get early investment.

Trust me, when independent equipment come out, foreign price will drop at same technology. They will loose equipment restrictions. Even central government can't block.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Huawei is supporting and developing domestic/ingenious supply chain, They are the crux of China tech industries. No wonder the US is so determined to destroy this company.

from cnTechPost

Huawei stepping up investment in chip startups in China
2020-09-30 3:39:55 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
0

8945993b78ff6d7f71165ee12ca2600f.jpeg

Huawei is stepping up its investments in China's tech sector in the face of intense pressure from the United States, including increasing its stakes in semiconductors and other tech companies to bolster its supply chain.

Public records show that Hubble Technology Investments Ltd, which Huawei established in April 2019, has completed 17 stakes in Chinese tech companies since last August.

This investment arm was set up in response to US restrictions on Huawei, including the cutting off of many overseas chip supplies, which effectively prevented Huawei from making its own chips.
Guo Ping said, "Since Huawei is just one company, we use investment and technology to help our supply chain partners mature."
Huawei's investment efforts also coincide with the government's increased efforts to boost China's semiconductor industry. While these investments may help Huawei in the future, analysts say that so far they have done little to address the supply chain gap.


Netease Tech quoted one Chinese chip investor as saying: "It will take a long time to work, but Huawei doesn't have many good options, so it will have to turn to outward investment."
Most of Hubble's investments target chip-related Chinese startups, some of which are already part of Huawei's supply chain.

As an example, Vertilite, founded in 2015, which makes VCSEL sensors that support camera facial recognition technology, received an investment from Huawei this year.
However, many of the companies Huawei supports are in the early stages of development. For example, Wuxi-based SHOULDER Electronics, which makes radio-frequency filters that support wireless communications but have yet to achieve compatibility with advanced 5G phones, received an investment from Hubble in January.


3PEAK, which also received an investment from Hubble this year, makes analog-to-digital converters (ADCs) for use in wireless network base stations.

3PEAK's prospectus, released ahead of its IPO at the Star Market in Shanghai, shows that the U.S. company dominates this market segment, generating just 300 million yuan ($43.99 million) in revenue last year.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
Its depends on what direction state want to go. As we know, SMIC is public listed, not easy for state to intefere unless it will go bankruptcy.

Its still many variable, what options SMIC taken, if the follow US regulations they lost State support, if the defy US they got state support. In October is supposed to be central planning for 5 year's plan. 11 November US election. After that's we got clear picture what really happened.

It's not like death or alive for state that's need urgently replacement foreign chip. For state its important for military self sufficient the rest lets market decided. Made in China 2025 doesn't mean total replacement foreign chip. Its merely boost domestic chip to certain percentage.

Bear on mind, the largest Fab company in Taiwan. If US or other country push China to the edge, 100% China will attack Taiwan and reunification. Then the whole world will lost to cutting edge Fab company.

AI, Smart City, 5G and IoT will fuel 4th industrial revolution, the need of China for semiconductor, robotics and machinery beyond imagination. It will born hundred or thousand unicorn company. US put handbrake it's not surprised. They also want big cake for 4th industrial revolution in China.

Ultimate goal for US is opening China market for US company as big as possible. Worst case scenarios delay China 4th industrial revolution as much as possible so they can grab world market ahead of time.

China will not cease in ensure that the entirety of its high tech supply chains are located domestically. The US share will gradually diminish until it is insignificant.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
Amazon made losses for 14 years, but it has huge and growing sales during that time.

It did not rely on government subsidies.

The sales were proof that it was offering a competitive, market-beating product that was surpassing the top retailers of the time. That is why investors piled in. If it was not making sales but only relying on government subsidies to survive, then Amazon would have had no market value either. This is the situation of SMIC. SMIC cannot offer the best product, so it only can rely on direct or indirect government subsidies for revenue.

The reality is that SMIC will likely never be as good as TSMC. Why? Because when SMIC advances one step, TSMC will also advance one step. TSMC is not sitting still either. TSMC, unlike the sanctions-hit SMIC, will have actual sales to the world's leading companies where they can prove their products. SMIC will have, at best, government-subsidized sales going against market rules. It knows it can survive while still building an inferior product, so it will not have the same incentive that TSMC does to make the best product.

That is why SMIC will likely never be as good as TSMC. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm probably not. China had an independent semiconductor industry in the 1980s... and it was inferior. That is likely what China is going back to today. An independent, government subsidized industry and only exists due to protections, but it is inferior in quality and will likely fall further and further behind. In other words the gains of opening & reform will be rolled back.

Toyota was subsidized by the Japanese state until it became successful.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
I know your little country cannot compare, in size, accomplishments, ambitions or the individual quality of its people. It's out of its league when talking to/about China and we Chinese never waste our time even thinking about a place like Portugal. That is why when you criticize China, it is nothing more than an insect biting at a lion's toe nail.

It seems that way to you but not to the other people here because you post garbage and you eat your own garbage. Junior does not refer to your age; it refers to the insignificance of your country compared to China and hence its/your lack of qualifications to criticize.

Yes, all the time.

From above:
It seems that way to you but not to the other people here because you post garbage and you eat your own garbage.

Everything I post on Taiwan is correct, politically, and realistically. Everything you posted was based on stretching centuries-old events into nonsensical modern dreams.

It also seems you don't know how to use the quotation system because I have no idea how but for some reason, in your vast incompetence, all of Brightfuture's posts are being credited to me in your "rebuttal."

Let's us not veer into attacks on persons and other countries, please.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
HTHD looks a lot like a Skylon, complete with the slightly curved engine nacelle.

I can already hear the cries of "stolen IP" from the future.
 
Top