News on China's scientific and technological development.

Aperture05

New Member
Registered Member
Huawei is currently building a 45nm FAB in Dongguan. It will build a new 28nm FAB next year possibly in cooperation with another party.
The new SMEE 28nm Lithograph will be out next year and is probably for this new FAB.
This machine can produce 7nm Chips with Multiple Patterning.
They have recently developed a 22nm Lithograph (May 2020) which will come out a bit later.
I usually try to provide Links and attach articles where possible.
My previous posts in the old Semiconductor forum has alot of attached articles.

SMIC is building a 28nm line with a target got 2022, which is why I doubt that Huawei can do 7nm in 2023 with no experience in semiconductor manufacturing.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Huawei has already failed and so has China.
No, Huawei and China have only begun to fight. You, your Falun gong agenda and your CIA handlers have failed to incite defeatism in the Chinese. America began this to stop Chinese tech innovation and capitulate China on economic discussions; instead, it has spurred Chinese innovation and can now watch China's economy steam forward while America's languishes with COVID. America has failed so badly that it is not even in the correct fight because it can't claw itself there. It is flattering America to even say that it is fighting country vs company; in actuality, the entire country is fighting only one arm, one tentacle of Huawei which makes its phones. America fears Huawei's 5G and other tech, NOT its phone sales but has tricked stupid people like yourself into thinking that if it pauses Hauwei's phone sales, it is an American victory. In fact, everything America fears about Huawei has accelerated and Huawei is in no danger as a tech company. This is the paltry extent of America's remaining "power."
China is being cut out of the global market and global supply chains controlled by the US.
China has more trade and Huawei has more global market share of 5G contracts in the world than anyone else. The supply chains controlled by the US are dying because of America's actions and will be replaced with freer ones as everyone scrambles to develop their own tech to keep selling to China. As I said, America is hacking its last blade into scrap metal.
Every country is at the mercy of the US. Not only China.
You probably really enjoyed writing that, cus that's where your real allegiance lies LOL. But it's not really true. Everyone's at America's "mercy" in the sense that in the global order that America created, there is reliance and interconnection, so if a crucial connection refuses to work, it affects everyone. It's just like if a crucial worker quits at your company, everyone is at his "mercy"... for now. But once they find his replacement, he's an outcast who tried and failed to pull one over on everyone. When America weaponizes and politicizes trade, it becomes that employee who threatens his company with the position of power and trust they gave him. So now, everyone who is reliant on America has no choice but to, in the short term, capitulate to it just like how the company might immediately offer a raise and new office to the troublemaker to keep operations running. Is it a win? For a month, it may seem like it, until one day, he comes to work and finds his office tag changed to a different name and his replacement sitting in his seat. Every American company and president except Trump understand this, so now, the world looks for alternatives to US technology and only the incredibly foolish and short-sighted would call this bridging period a win.
Tell me, was the Chinese economy booming during the autarky era of Mao Zedong in the 1970s? Was China rich then? Was China booming during the Qing Dynasty in the 1800s?
It was not. And today, it is.
China should seek better relations with the US and the world.
Demonstrate how to do it by seeking better relations with me and I'll believe that that it's possible to have better relations with a rival like the US. As for the rest of the world, global opinion of China is already on the rise; where have you been? Reading Epoch Times or Breitbart? LOL
When China seeks better relations, as under Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin, and Hu Jintao, it will succeed tremendously.
They did a very good job of transforming China from a poor, backwards country into an advanced, middle-income but collectively rich country. It is a different job moving forward to overtake the world's only superpower and requires different tactics.
It will become the world's largest economy and the world's greatest power.
A rare true statement from you which will remain true under Xi, but it might have been false if China undertook appeasement, causing it to be killed off by the US like Japan was.
But when China turns it back on the world and starts picking a fight with everyone, especially the US, it will fail, as it did during the isolation era of Qing Dynasty and the Cultural Revolution.
China's path has never been dictated nor even accurately predicted by spineless hanjian; it is always be forged and pushed ahead by warm-blooded patriots.
The lesson of hundreds of years of Chinese modern history has never wavered for a moment.
Completely untrue. China came into being by beating the crap out of all surrounding dynasties. Success lies nether in peace nor war but in knowing when to choose peace and when to gear up for war.
Isolation and fighting is failure. But reform and opening up is success.
That is advice for the US as it starts more fights than anyone and is isolating itself playing "if you're his friend then you can't be my friend."
No matter what path China follows this iron law will never change. Currently under Xi Jinping China is returning to the path of Mao Zedong and the Qing Dynasty, isolation and fighting. Therefore, China will enter a new era of failure and stagnation.

If China changes course again, its fortunes will change.
The figures that represent China's "failures and stagnation" are unachievable to any other nation even in their wildest dreams. They are labelled as such only in your imagination.

From myself:

"China's path has never been dictated nor even accurately predicted by spineless hanjian; it is always be forged and pushed ahead by warm-blooded patriots."
And they will be refused. And when they are refused, they will comply. If they really sided with Huawei, they would say to hell with US suppliers, we will develop our own production lines without US equipment. But they will not do this. Instead, they will replace their sales to Huawei with sales to Apple, Intel, Google, and other US companies. Plus Taiwanese companies. Watch what they do, not what they say.
Siding with Huawei is pointless because they cannot operate to supply Huawei until they replace all of America's inputs. It's not a choice of USA or Huawei; it's a choice of operate or not. They must operate and in that time, develop alternatives. Indeed, some companies are too small to undertake such a task of development until other players can offer support in componentry and critical tech.
Just watch.
Another one of your "watch, after 80 years, you'll see I'm right" statements? LOLOL Where will you hide your face when China's full lithography and semiconductor line comes to fruition in a few short years? Put it away where you left your spine? LOL
 
Last edited:

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
No, Huawei and China have only begun to fight. You, your Falun gong agenda and your CIA handlers have failed to incite defeatism in the Chinese. America began this to stop Chinese tech innovation and capitulate China on economic discussions; instead, it has spurred Chinese innovation and can now watch China's economy steam forward while America's languishes with COVID. America has failed so badly that it is not even in the correct fight because it can't claw itself there. It is flattering America to even say that it is fighting country vs company; in actuality, the entire country is fighting only one arm, one tentacle of Huawei which makes its phones. America fears Huawei's 5G and other tech, NOT its phone sales but has tricked stupid people like yourself into thinking that if it pauses Hauwei's phone sales, it is an American victory. In fact, everything America fears about Huawei has accelerated and Huawei is in no danger as a tech company. This is the paltry extent of America's remaining "power."

China has more trade and Huawei has more global market share of 5G contracts in the world than anyone else. The supply chains controlled by the US are dying because of America's actions and will be replaced with freer ones as everyone scrambles to develop their own tech to keep selling to China. As I said, America is hacking its last blade into scrap metal.

You probably really enjoyed writing that, cus that's where your real allegiance lies LOL. But it's not really true. Everyone's at America's "mercy" in the sense that in the global order that America created, there is reliance and interconnection, so if a crucial connection refuses to work, it affects everyone. It's just like if a crucial worker quits at your company, everyone is at his "mercy"... for now. But once they find his replacement, he's an outcast who tried and failed to pull one over on everyone. When America weaponizes and politicizes trade, it becomes that employee who threatens his company with the position of power and trust they gave him. So now, everyone who is reliant on America has no choice but to, in the short term, capitulate to it just like how the company might immediately offer a raise and new office to the troublemaker to keep operations running. Is it a win? For a month, it may seem like it, until one day, he comes to work and finds his office tag changed to a different name and his replacement sitting in his seat. Every American company and president except Trump understand this, so now, the world looks for alternatives to US technology and only the incredibly foolish and short-sighted would call this bridging period a win.

It was not. And today, it is.

Demonstrate how to do it by seeking better relations with me and I'll believe that that it's possible to have better relations with a rival like the US. As for the rest of the world, global opinion of China is already on the rise; where have you been? Reading Epoch Times or Breitbart? LOL

They did a very good job of transforming China from a poor, backwards country into an advanced, middle-income but collectively rich country. It is a different job moving forward to overtake the world's only superpower and requires different tactics.

A rare true statement from you which will remain true under Xi, but it might have been false if China undertook appeasement, causing it to be killed off by the US like Japan was.

China's path has never been dictated nor even accurately predicted by spineless hanjian; it is always be forged and pushed ahead by warm-blooded patriots.

Completely untrue. China came into being by beating the crap out of all surrounding dynasties. Success lies nether in peace nor war but in knowing when to choose peace and when to gear up for war.

That is advice for the US as it starts more fights than anyone and is isolating itself playing "if you're his friend then you can't be my friend."

The figures that represent China's "failures and stagnation" are unachievable to any other nation even in their wildest dreams. They are labelled as such only in your imagination.

From myself:

"China's path has never been dictated nor even accurately predicted by spineless hanjian; it is always be forged and pushed ahead by warm-blooded patriots."

Siding with Huawei is pointless because they cannot operate to supply Huawei until they replace all of America's inputs. It's not a choice of USA or Huawei; it's a choice of operate or not. They must operate and in that time, develop alternatives. Indeed, some companies are too small to undertake such a task of development until other players can offer support in componentry and critical tech.

Another one of your "watch, after 80 years, you'll see I'm right" statements? LOLOL Where will you hide your face when China's full lithography and semiconductor line comes to fruition in a few short years? Put it away where you left your spine? LOL

Gadgetcool is a tool and has no spine. If anyone thinks overtaking the US will be a cakewalk is clearly delusional. But if you are too scared to fight, there is no winning. Definitely China has weak points. Semi conductors, lack of geopolitical strategy, RMB Globalization, etc. But none of these things are not overcomable. In fact the US is pushing China to remedy all 3 weak points at record speed.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is one last commentary. In Western countries, internet companies are made up of 50-50 Indian or Chinese employees. My observation is that the Chinese employees are strong in technical skills and can push out higher quality work, but Indians are far better at playing the game of building relationships and making it up the corporate ladder.

This also applies to China in general. China is able to overcome tough technical problems, but don't know how play the geopolitical game of building alliance. Maybe it's a culture thing of not recognizing the importance of building alliances or not having a common ideology or the overemphasis on economic development im the post Mao era.

But I don't think this is completely unfixable. it's just the current leadership doesn't have the skills. Mao was a master at geopolitics, xi jinping is not. China had allies in Africa, middle east, Asia, eastern europe, etc.

The belief that wealth = geopolitical power has been completely debunked.

Every thing is a balance. Mao focused too much on geopolitics and Deng went too extreme on focusing only on economic development. You need a combination of both.

Difference between Putin and Xi, is that Putin is a deal maker and can maneuver strategically in geopolitical situations. Russia is economically weak but still exerts quite a lot of power over its periphery and is able to keep the US at bay. From pure military power, Russia and China are comparable, ecomomic power China is way superior. But it's the deployment of that power that determines the outcome. Putin or even Iran are better at utilizing their limited power to maximize the returns.
 
Last edited:

Chish

Junior Member
Registered Member
even Japan/SK is an issue if Trump decide to put pressure on them, like he did with Huawei - TSMC/Samsung relation.
Surely by now every high tech company in the world including US allies would be working on plan B and C after the damages US had done to the tech trade.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
It doesn't matter how much money they throw at it, it takes minimum a year and a half to build a fab and develop a node. Not to mention that they have no experience what so ever. Then another year between pilot production and volume production. Going by the (somewhat implausible) 2022 date for SMEE equipment delivery, it'll be at least 2024 before they can start volume production
Where do you get this information?

They built a hospital in 10 days in Wuhan during the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak.

Huawei has been hiring Taiwan and Korean IC workers with big paychecks.

Things move at China speed inside China.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Surely by now every high tech company in the world including US allies would be working on plan B and C after the damages US had done to the tech trade.
What the United States did was extremely stupid, geopolitically speaking.

They did not ask foreign companies to take sides in their US government versus Hauwei SMIC war, they coerced those companies to take a side.

Let's say it takes 2 to 10 years for China to fully master a reasonably advanced node in integrated circuits. There is not much of the China market left for those foreign companies competing in that same space.

The next step after this 10 year mark is important. Suppose the United States asks these foreign companies in these foreign countries ... ask them again to do them another favour?

Like what the hell, you know?!

Last time they did them a favour, they lost market share in China, and probably never regained it back. Now they want another favour ten years later?

They are suppose to support their friends, and not screw them over.

:D
 
Top