News on China's scientific and technological development.

KYli

Brigadier
If Biden won the election, Democrats wouldn't be too kind to Zuckerberg. Many Democrats felt Zuckerberg has intentionally done nothing to stop the spreading of misinformation especially by QAnon.
 

machupicu

Junior Member
Registered Member
But the Chinese cannot buy chips equipment right now. How can the Chinese increase market share long term?
Regarding setting up semiconductor line using non-US equipment, China can buy machines from Tokyo Electron, which are doing lots of business in China. Also, SMEE's 28nm resolution lithography machines will be delivered maybe first half of year 2021.

All other machines and chemicals can be sourced from within China, or SK, Japan or even Russia for certain chemicals. Those companies will disregard US' request/demand to not sell any to China.

The other major piece of the puzzle is EDA, but China, too, has several EDA companies,
"ProPlus, one the Chinese startups Intel Capital has funded, makes EDA software that chip makers use to design their products before manufacturing them...ProPlus Chairman and CEO Zhihong Liu once worked as a VP at Cadence Technologies while its director, Chenming Hu, once served as the CTO of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co Ltd (2330.TW) (TSMC).
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"In fact, a number of high-quality EDA companies have emerged in China, some of which have achieved a follow-on to the United States, or even reached the level of catching up, for example, Huada Jiutian, which has done very characteristic at the simulation level, and many listed companies have cooperation with them.

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Another Chinese start-up makes the buzz on twitter


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they

The start up is called Beijing puppy robotics

They won an Edison Awards


Another winner is PowerEgg X , a chinese company too and also Robosense

There is a lot of talent in China, and every day there are new start-ups in emerging technologies, US sanctions will not be able to stop this

Very cool new tech. Meanwhile India can't even engineer or make normal projectors.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Very cool new tech. Meanwhile India can't even engineer or make normal projectors.


Key is to never falter, never stop this trend.

It's very easy to get lazy/disincentivized and stop progressing like Intel and Facebook.

Government must continue to foster competitive and open business environment.


Hope Chinese dominance goes on for another 1000 years.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think Huawei stocking of chips may contribute for the increase, and also the author mention the lack of national strategy by the govt to help the IC SECTOR.

from cnTechPost

China's chip imports expected to exceed $300 billion this year
2020-08-26 17:46:05 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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1

China's chip imports expected to exceed $300 billion this year-cnTechPost

China's 2020 chip imports are expected to remain above $300 billion for the third consecutive year, said Wei Shaojun, deputy director of the China Semiconductor Industry Association, at the World Semiconductor Congress in Nanjing.

China's chip imports in 2019 amounted to $304 billion, far exceeding the second-most imported crude oil. Although the overall amount of chip imports is very large, imports decreased by $8 billion compared with 2018, down 2.6 percent year-on-year.

Wei Shaojun said that the number of chips imported into China in 2019 exceeded $300 billion, but the foreign dependence of high-end chip products is still very high. However, in the low- and mid-range chip market, the domestic substitution capacity is continuing to improve, slowly reducing the degree of dependence on foreign countries.

In the first half of 2020, the global semiconductor market grew 4.52% year-on-year, with sales reaching $208.5 billion.


According to the China Semiconductor Industry Association, the sales of China's integrated circuit industry from January to June 2020 were $353.9 billion, up 16.1 percent year-on-year, with a slight increase in growth rate from the first quarter.
According to Chinese customs statistics, China imported 242.27 billion integrated circuits in January-June 2020, up 25.5 percent year-on-year; the import value of $154.61 billion, up 12.2 percent year-on-year.

Wei Shaojun said that the first half of the global semiconductor growth 100% contributed by the Chinese market, because China is relatively early out of the impact of the epidemic, so China's semiconductor demand has steadily increased to drive the growth of global semiconductor.
China previously said that domestically made chip self-sufficiency rate to reach 70% in 2025. In 2019, China's chip self-sufficiency rate is only about 30%, that is to say, to become double the self-sufficiency rate in this six-year period.



In 2019, China's IC industry sales revenue was 756.22 billion yuan, and in 2020, China's IC industry sales revenue is expected to exceed 900 billion yuan.
China has been the world's largest chip importer. In Wei Shaojun's view, the biggest problem facing China's integrated circuits is that Chinese companies are not investing enough in research and development.

He believes that even though some companies have now invested more than 20% in R&D, the volume is too small and still cannot achieve a completely positive cycle. At present, China's IC industry urgently needs capital and technology guided by a national strategy.
 

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
Any news or insights on how Huawei will cope with the latest ban?

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Huawei is pretty much dead as a company. Even SCMP is sounding the death knell. The biggest problem is China's unwillingness to use state power to retaliate against US for Huawei. China obviously has its reasons about why it is not retaliating. Right now, China is too weak to fight US head-on. Or fight head-on without hurting itself more.

The biggest advantage China has is its rapid potential for fast GDP growth and rapid tech catch-up. So, it is focusing on developing itself rather than decoupling with US even further. Any action to retaliate for Huawei will probably hurt itself more. So, it is not going for that.

I don't think China has a choice but to give up on some tech advances it made that was too much dependent on US platform tech. Mainly Smartphone business, Laptop Business and app business. All dependent on US platform of Chips, Android and Windows. China can probably rely on homegrown platform in its home market. But it cannot use homegrown alternative to android or windows outside China. They will always be at a disadvantage compared to the huge app library of Windows and Android. These are simply too entrenched. Same thing with X86 and ARM instruction set.

China will have to grow from the bottom up. Start with low tech chips used in low tech parts then slowly move up the value chain to finally get to smartphone level. As long as they rely on US tech for this, they can always be cutoff. So, Xiaomi and Oneplus are on borrowed time. Now that Xiaomi is gaining market share in Europe, it is almost certainly the next target.

China will have to make a strategic decision sooner or later to completely give on Smartphone, Laptop and App business outside China and focus on its home market to develop the necessary chips and Operating system, Database software and so on. Even programming languages are all US made. That cannot work. China needs to develop its own programming languages now. Every single US tech must have a Chinese alternative. Only then it can survive the full onslaught of Western decoupling that is coming.

Of course many of these tech are open source or can be copied easily. But, China will still have to make sufficient changes to make them uniquely Chinese to break away from US dominance.
 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
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Huawei is pretty much dead as a company. Even SCMP is sounding the death knell. The biggest problem is China's unwillingness to use state power to retaliate against US for Huawei. China obviously has its reasons about why it is not retaliating. Right now, China is too weak to fight US head-on. Or fight head-on without hurting itself more.

The biggest advantage China has is its rapid potential for fast GDP growth and rapid tech catch-up. So, it is focusing on developing itself rather than decoupling with US even further. Any action to retaliate for Huawei will probably hurt itself more. So, it is not going for that.

I don't think China has a choice but to give up on some tech advances it made that was too much dependent on US platform tech. Mainly Smartphone business, Laptop Business and app business. All dependent on US platform of Chips, Android and Windows. China can probably rely on homegrown platform in its home market. But it cannot use homegrown alternative to android or windows outside China. They will always be at a disadvantage compared to the huge app library of Windows and Android. These are simply too entrenched. Same thing with X86 and ARM instruction set.

China will have to grow from the bottom up. Start with low tech chips used in low tech parts then slowly move up the value chain to finally get to smartphone level. As long as they rely on US tech for this, they can always be cutoff. So, Xiaomi and Oneplus are on borrowed time. Now that Xiaomi is gaining market share in Europe, it is almost certainly the next target.

China will have to make a strategic decision sooner or later to completely give on Smartphone, Laptop and App business outside China and focus on its home market to develop the necessary chips and Operating system, Database software and so on. Even programming languages are all US made. That cannot work. China needs to develop its own programming languages now. Every single US tech must have a Chinese alternative. Only then it can survive the full onslaught of Western decoupling that is coming.

Of course many of these tech are open source or can be copied easily. But, China will still have to make sufficient changes to make them uniquely Chinese to break away from US dominance.
China not retaliating is a mistake. Look at how India responded to it’s border clashes with China.
 

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
China not retaliating is a mistake. Look at how India responded to it’s border clashes with China.

And it did nothing for India except to make it poorer. China is India's enemy. Using Cheap Chinese goods and Chinese investments to develop itself will be a huge beneficial aspect for India. Instead they are getting fixated on barren wastelands that don't matter for India's biggest problem which is poverty and backwardness.


China was not foolish like India and did not fixate on Self-reliance. It swallowed humiliation many times just to get rich. It gave western companies and westerners themselves lot of perks. When it got rich, then it got back at the US.

Poor people should not have pride. They should understand that being poor is the biggest humiliation. The fact that China cannot make chips is the humiliation, not that US is attacking Huawei.
 
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