News on China's scientific and technological development.

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Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
localizer said:
SMIC has ASML DUV machines I believe.

TSMC and Samsung and Intel have the EUV machines. Yet Intel still hasn't been able to mass produce its first EUV product.




People I know who work at TSMC tell me their protocol is to destroy everything in case of mainland invasion. :D So looks like for EUV China will have to do extra work.

Will need a combination of hardworking researchers and espionage at ASML/TSMC. Or develop its own tech unrelated to EUV.





I've done this type of work before. The 1st thing to do is to get your hands on the machine. Next you need to build your own replica even if it's not up the same quality. Going through this process you will learn a lot. Your future iterations will improve very rapidly. Since China is in constant tension with the West, there isn't room to be modest, you have to take shortcuts.
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China will not be getting ASML EUV machines, unless it finds a way of producing comparable performance EUV machines itself or machines that can produce 7nm nodes or less with a commercial output comparable to EUV machines using some other methodologies. Then ASML will be desperate to sell EUV machines to Chinese chip making companies.
 
W

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
WTAN said:
It uses some new technology but it is still a Laser Direct Write Litho Machine. It just uses a dual beam to achieve a shorter Wavelength and greater resolution. Laser Direct Write Litho machines are not good for mass production of Chips. But this technology will result in probably one of the best Direct Write machines.

Some Japanese Companies are actually developing a Mutli Beam Litho Machine which can actually Mass produce Chips. Each machine has hundreds of Lasers which can process hundreds of Chips individually at the same time. Maybe these guys can look into this type of Multi Beam Litho Machine setup and utilise the technology they have developed.

The interesting part is actually the CAS Shanghai Guangxue Company developing and patenting a method to reduce LPP EUV Light Debris using Magnetic Fields. It specifically refers to this technology being applied to LPP EUV. This Patent quite likely means that the Changchun Institute EUV Project has decided that it will use the LPP EUV as the main light source. The DPP EUV has been rumoured to be unable to generate sufficient power.
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But Laser Direct Write Litho Machine can be extensively utilized in military vehicles, computers, and telecommunications stations that do not require much mass production output, right?
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
AndrewS said:
Allies may obey American policies, but the trust is completely gone.
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Their trust is not required, their obedience is.
AndrewS said:
The leaders of France and Germany are publicly saying the US cannot be relied upon, and that Europe needs to build itself up and be able to reject US leadership. That will become the default EU position.
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What they say and what they do are distinct, and only the latter distinction matters.
 
horse

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
KYli said:
You are thinking that Xiaomi, Oppo and Vivo would have a choice not to buy from Qualcomm. Qualcomm IP extortion would go into full spin if Xiaomi, Oppo and Vivo don't buy enough chips to keep it happy.
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I thought I read that Xiaomi and Oppo both were also designing their own chips, like what HiSilicone was doing for Huawei.

The days of Qualcomm in China are numbered. The licensing fee too expensive, Trump expensive. Bigly!

:D
 
K

KYli

Brigadier
horse said:
I thought I read that Xiaomi and Oppo both were also designing their own chips, like what HiSilicone was doing for Huawei.

The days of Qualcomm in China are numbered. The licensing fee too expensive, Trump expensive. Bigly!

:D
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Xiaomi abandoned its chip-making plans early this year but revived it with an attempt to cooperating with MediaTek and investing in some small chips maker. I don't have much faith in Xiaomi. Oppo said to develop its own chips but not much info is known.
 
G

galvatron

Junior Member
Registered Member
ansy1968 said:
Hi KYli,

yup Xiaomi is all talk, I have more fate in OPPO, they produce more phone than Xiaomi with their other phone brands combine, so they had the incentive to produce their own chips.
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Are vivo and oneplus part of oppo? Why do they have that many brands?
 
K

KYli

Brigadier
galvatron said:
Are vivo and oneplus part of oppo? Why do they have that many brands?
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BBK founder divided his company into three divisions. Each of them became independent and has its own CEO. One of the division became vivo. Another one became oppo. Oppo division boss and founder created OnePlus but onePlus relied upon Oppo's resource and share oppo's manufacture plants. In the end, oppo other shareholders felt that oppo CEO abused his power and he was forced to allow OnePlus to become independent and give up control of OnePlus.
 
A

antiterror13

Brigadier
localizer said:
According to these people, China imported several Arf-immersion 1980Di DUV machines:
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On ASML's website, it says that the machine is capable of sub 10nm. The new NXT 2000i machine is capable of 7nm and 5nm using Arf-immersion. Also, TSMC's initial N7 and N7P 7nm nodes were done on DUV machines.

China must continue to improve its economy and subsequently pay to Chinese genius to keep them in China. I believe within 10 years, China can catch up 95% to state of the art.
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When I read it, I thought it was produced in 1980 ... goooosh, so ancient

But actually it was first produced in 2015 ... pretty new!
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