News on China's scientific and technological development.

AndrewS said:

I expect 7nm is mainly about electricity consumption, rather than speed.

All that extra data throughput takes power, and it costs money to upgrade the electricity infrastructure.

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High power radio signal transmission between 4g/5g base stations requires high power semiconductor devices of a certain large enough capacity and therefore size. The 7 nm node is only relevant when it comes to the digital signal processing at the backend computer, which should be a smaller part of the power consumption in the first place, meaning that the power saving wouldn't be that significant, IMO.

AndrewS said:

At this point in time, it doesn't make sense for China to retaliate.

The US doesn't have any rational or consistent decision making until the November 2020 elections are over.

It's another 2-3 months, so Chinese companies can hold out for that long against any likely actions.

So any overt retaliation should wait until after the US elections, because the winner has to look to the next 4 years.

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Allowing your rival to dictate the terms and conditions of engagement is never wise. I don't advocate tit-for-tat. At the same time, even if your opponent is irrational, it doesn't mean you allow it to have a free hand of hitting you.

If Trump really went after all major Chinese tech companies, I just don't see the point of waiting another 2-3 months. At this moment, China could still wait it out but China should prepare to hit back hard if things deteriorated.

Hendrik_2000 said:

They don't use SMIC chip anyway so who care? they are minnow anyway The future order from Huawei will be huge since they have captured market

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ok furture order, care to provide a link on these future orders? i mean sure Huawei likely survive, but we can't predict futures. Huawei 5g took a hit probably temporially , but its cell phone in the near years or two or more unlikely to survive. in that time, the domestic share could shift toward xiomi/oppo or samsung. Huawei need to have a competitive cell phone and ability to make those critical components in order to take the lead.

AndrewS said:

There's no need to block chip imports completely.

The Chinese government can mandate the use of Chinese chips, even if they are more expensive or perform worse.

After some time, Chinese chips will be competitive.

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Mandating the use of chinese chips has the same effect of blocking chip imports. There is only one option for chinese consumers.

"After some time" ? when will that happen? Unless china can compete with the US chip manufacturing tech, i find it hard to happen.

s002wjh said:

ok furture order, care to provide a link on these future orders? i mean sure Huawei likely survive, but we can't predict futures. Huawei 5g took a hit probably temporially , but its cell phone in the near years or two or more unlikely to survive. in that time, the domestic share could shift toward xiomi/oppo or samsung. Huawei need to have a competitive cell phone and ability to make those critical components in order to take the lead.

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Huawei already order Kirin 720 chip to SMIC this june I guess If smic can produce this chip with good quality and in large quantity within schedule I have no doubt much larger order will follow.Huawei smart phone is not going to keel down and die They might slow the expansion but they will live and wait until SMIC come up with 7nm technology. which they promise to be available early next year which is not too long Here it is

KIRIN 710A OFFICIALLY STARTS MASS PRODUCTION – USES SMIC 14NM PROCESS


In April this year, Honor Play4T was released using a 6.39-inch display as well as a rear fingerprint recognition solution. However, this smartphone comes with the Huawei HiSilicon Kirin 710A SoC. According to the “Technology Board Daily” report, this mobile chip “” starts mass production and it uses SMIC 14nm process. This chip clocks at 2.0GHz which means that it is a frequency downgrade relative to Kirin 710. “Kirin 710A” represents a breakthrough in achieving zero localization and is an ice-breaking move for China’s semiconductor chip technology.



Recall that Huawei is currently TSMC’s second-largest customer behind Apple. However, its orders with TSMC may significantly reduce especially if other foundries step up their game. Huawei is slowly moving its orders from TSMC and its starting with the Kirin 710A. Huawei does not have an issue with TSMC, however, TSMC is now a target for the U.S. government.
Thus, Huawei is getting prepared ahead of time. Although TSMC is a Taiwanese company, it uses some American technology in its manufacturing process. There are speculations that the American government is seeking to place a ban on TSMC that would limit its use of American technology on Huawei’s chips.

There is more than smartphone chip that can be produced with 14nm technology Specially Huawei where the main business is 4 and 5 G transmitter. Now that they have to work with SMIC Huawei will pass on their experience in 7nm technology to SMIC. for long time Chinese FAB was hobbled because they don't have client with proprietary technology to work with.

Experts say HiSilicon’s latest Kirin processors, used exclusively in Huawei mobile phones, can only be made by TSMC at the moment, although they add that earlier Kirin processors could be outsourced to SMIC.
Other chips produced by HiSilicon, such as those for so-called IOT devices, power management, or set-top boxes, could be sent to SMIC, they said.
Gaining more business from Huawei would also help SMIC improve its processes as Huawei would be able to pass on valuable knowledge gained in working with TSMC, the analysts added.

ansy1968 said:

Hi WTAN,

Is there any news regarding the progress on EUV project? and also about the DUV how many can be produce in a month by SMEE, can they able to mass produce the machine? sorry for being pushy but its been a hell of a week full of bad news.

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Hi ansy1968, I thought this week was great news.

Huawei won its war against the US government about 5G networks.

(Monday)

(Wednesday)

Once they installed their stand alone 5G network, ahead of anyone else by years in this world, China's 5G network becomes the base for all new innovation until other countries have their stand alone 5G networks up and running. That is why GM will launch their first 5G connected car in China and NOT America.

Will President Trump sanction Government Motors? That remains to be seen.

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That is why these new sanctions against Huawei or related to Huawei, came out at this time, to deflect attention to the massive lost for the US government. They could not beat one single Chinese company, who is number #1 in cells, most market share in 5G gear, and they already built a stand alone 5G network that is operational, and the whole country will be like that under a year I would think.

Wars have a tendency to expand. The Americans were fighting in Vietnam, then they started to bomb Cambodia. Well, same thing is repeating, as the original war against Huawei did not have the result they wanted, therefore expand the war.

The problem now for the Americans, the expanded war tech is taking on all of Chinese company tech, and not just a single Chinese company. What do we think their chances are now, when they could not even beat one single Chinese company?

Bombing Cambodia did not work. Ho Chi Min trail remained potent.

Hendrik_2000 said:

Huawei already order Kirin 720 chip to SMIC this june I guess If smic can produce this chip with good quality and in large quantity within schedule I have no doubt much larger order will follow.Huawei smart phone is not going to keel down and die They might slow the expansion but they will live and wait until SMIC come up with 7nm technology. which they promise to be available early next year which is not too long Here it is

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This is not fair.

One day, one side announces more sanctions.

Not even a week later, the other side announces production.

Although 7nm is not in reach yet, there is a stockpile.

They can suck on those lemons.

KYli said:

Allowing your rival to dictate the terms and conditions of engagement is never wise. I don't advocate tit-for-tat. At the same time, even if your opponent is irrational, it doesn't mean you allow it to have a free hand of hitting you.

If Trump really went after all major Chinese tech companies, I just don't see the point of waiting another 2-3 months. At this moment, China could still wait it out but China should prepare to hit back hard if things deteriorated.

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But what if this is just a retreat.

They the Americans do not want to do business anymore, and they the Americans di not want anyone else to do business anymore with the Chinese. One word describes this, this is withdrawal.

This is a retreat.

When troops retreat, they run but they still turn around and fire off a few rounds and continue running.

horse said:

But what if this is just a retreat.

They the Americans do not want to do business anymore, and they the Americans di not want anyone else to do business anymore with the Chinese. One word describes this, this is withdrawal.

This is a retreat.

When troops retreat, they run but they still turn around and fire off a few rounds and continue running.

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It is only a retreat if most major Chinese high tech companies survived and emerged stronger. Right now, it is an attempt to destroy Chinese high tech giants before it is too late. Semiconductor is the last stranglehold that Americans have over China and the rest of the world.