News on China's scientific and technological development.

Semiconductors/Jet engine tech is heavy on materials science which relies heavily on chemistry which is similar to biology in that it takes a lot of time to research. That's why China hasn't been able to catch up. China needs patience and competent technicians to run all the experiments/iterations necessary.

@BMEWS Did you participate in SMIC IPO? I know you want Huawei to do it buy SMIC just got over $80 billion.

cross post from PAKISTAN DEFENSE FORUM between vi-va and FairAndUnbiased about China IC


vi-va (PAKISTAN DEFENSE FORUM)

China is the only player with full supply chain investment on this little planet.

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我们主要看看前道各环节需要用到的主要设备，以及对应设备供应商有哪些（标红的是本土厂商，标蓝的是美国厂商）

氧化/RTP/激光退火：氧化炉
应用材料，日本日立，东京电子，英国Thermco，北方华创，屹唐半导体

涂胶：涂胶显影设备
东京电子，迪恩士，德国SUSS，奥地利EVG，沈阳芯源微

光刻：光刻机
ASML，日本尼康，日本佳能，东京电子，应用材料，泛林集团，韩国SEMES，上海微电子

刻蚀：等离子体刻蚀机
泛林集团，维利安半导体，东京电子，应用材料，日本日立，韩国JuSung，韩国TES，中微公司，北方华创

离子注入：离子注入机
应用材料，美国Axcelies，德国Ingun，美国QA，美国MicroXcat，韩国Leeno，凯世通，中科信，中电科电子装备

物理气相沉积：PVD设备
应用材料，日本Evatec，日本Ulvac，美国Vaportech，英国Teer，瑞士Platit，德国Cemecon，北方微电子，沈阳中科仪器，成都南光，中国电子科技集团第48所，科睿设备

化学气相沉积：CVD设备
应用材料，泛林集团，美国GT，Soitec，美国ProtoFlex，法国Semco，ASML，东京电子，日本尼康，日本佳能，北方华创，沈阳拓荆

抛光：CMP设备
应用材料，美国Rtec，日本Evatec，华海清科，电科装备45所，盛美半导体

晶圆检测：电学检测设备、质量检测设备
泰瑞达，爱德万，东京电子，科磊半导体，应用材料，日本日立

长川科技，华峰测控，上海中艺，上海睿励，上海微电子，上海精测

多次清洗：清洗设备
日本迪恩士，东京电子，泛林集团，韩国SEMES，北方华创，盛美半导体，至纯科技，捷佳伟创

FairAndUnbiased (PAKISTAN DEFENSE FORUM)

saw this chart a while back. 北方华创 (Naura) and 中微 (AMEC) are pretty big on the chemistry (etch and deposition) side. There is definitely potential for them to put a little pressure on Applied Materials and Lam Research.

Applied Materials and Lam Research (US) are also on the chemistry side. The chemistry side is also not easy - there is a reason each reactor costs millions USD. But the chemistry side is something that there are least have competitors in, and by competitors, I don't mean just a lower tier supplier, but competing with them for top tier customers. This is totally different than having nothing. And even with Naura and AMEC in the market, fundamentally it still means that instead of 3 big companies (AMAT, Lam, TEL) being an oligopoly it's an oligopoly of 5... still an extraordinarily hard market.

中微 also makes CVD equipment, just not for IC market. It can potentially expand into the IC market in the future.

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Huawei never learn, they need to be humble, these kind of boasting only attract animosity and jealousy.

from cnTechPost

Huawei overtakes Samsung in 5G phone shipments, ranking first in the world
2020-07-17 11:02:15 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
0


As of the end of the first quarter of this year, Huawei had a 40 percent share of global 5G handset shipments, ahead of Samsung to rank No. 1 in the world, Huawei said today at the Huawei Cloud Internet Summit.

By the end of the first quarter, Huawei had shipped more than 15 million 5G handsets worldwide.

Huawei said it has a 63 percent share of China's 5G handset market.
According to IDC, in the first quarter of 2020, shipments of 5G handsets in China were about 14.5 million units, accounting for 21.8 percent of the overall market, up 64 percent from the previous quarter.
Taking into account last year's data, the total number of 5G phones shipped in the country reached 23.8 million units by the first quarter of 2020.


With different brands, Huawei still holds more than half of the 5G phone market share, but with many headset manufacturers entering the market for different price segments and different product positioning, vivo (14.4%), OPPO (13.9%) and Xiaomi (13.3%) in the second to fourth place have also taken 40% of the market, and the competition between each other is becoming increasingly intense.

localizer said:

Yep, and it didn't have to be this way.

Sadly the West doesn't compete fairly and instead colonizes other peoples or invades them and places them under perpetual poverty in the name of "Democracy" and "Freedom."

I think they realized Chinese are too capable and will probably take 50% of the world's GDP like in the past if not hindered.

The currently situation seems pretty "All In," simply judging by the COVID response like Georgia banning mask mandates and total uncontrolled stimulus spending, we can see that US government is doing a last ditch effort.

I mean, how can the US turn back from any of this?

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That is exactly why China needs to have 90 DDGs as soon as possible to make sure the SCS trading links are protected. This is not a fanboy fantasy. As the main adversary is trying to ban chips sales to you, and cut your transport links, the only way is to get prepared by making as many ships as your adversary have right now.

Peter2018 said:

That is exactly why China needs to have 90 DDGs as soon as possible to make sure the SCS trading links are protected. This is not a fanboy fantasy. As the main adversary is trying to ban chips sales to you, and cut your transport links, the only way is to get prepared by making as many ships as your adversary have right now.

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Idk how often you visit China but our apartment complex in Guangzhou has underground bunker/parking like other new apartment complexes along with extensive underground parking and subways throughout the city.

Government isn’t ignoring the possibility of all out nuclear war it seems. Can’t rule out the other nuclear nations will do a “Final Solution” on Chinese.

ansy1968 said:

Even in the US, only Intel and GloFo are anywhere near the leading edge, and GloFo is no longer chasing the leading edge. They cancelled their 7 nm program and sold their EUV lithography tools. GloFo also didn't independently develop its 14 nm process, they licensed it from Samsung.

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Isn't it the other way around ? DIdn't Samsung license it from GoFlo ? Samsung also licenses tec from TSMC.
Atleast that's what I got to know from AnandTech discussions.

localizer said:

Semiconductors/Jet engine tech is heavy on materials science which relies heavily on chemistry which is similar to biology in that it takes a lot of time to research. That's why China hasn't been able to catch up. China needs patience and competent technicians to run all the experiments/iterations necessary.

@BMEWS Did you participate in SMIC IPO? I know you want Huawei to do it buy SMIC just got over $80 billion.

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Hey, no I dont play stocks, Im spend every penny i make, dont believe in investing

localizer said:

Idk how often you visit China but our apartment complex in Guangzhou has underground bunker/parking like other new apartment complexes along with extensive underground parking and subways throughout the city.

Government isn’t ignoring the possibility of all out nuclear war it seems. Can’t rule out the other nuclear nations will do a “Final Solution” on Chinese.

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Hope for best but plan for worst. A ""final solution"" is definetly something US is under active consideration if not already planned and decided...

Nukes are the ultimate equalizer in a scorthed earth policy sort of way... In the long run, its about which civilization can rebuild faster post...

Did you see github stored all its source code in artic vault recently?

China should have an underground plan to rebuild from scratch as quickly as possible a new Chinese civilization if US leaves it no choice but to go for ultimate reset if you know what I mean.

No one is going to invade SCS. Not without a mass mobilisation of forces. Not without allied support. And no allies are crazy enough to support it. NO ONE.

China has a laundry list of options on table - everything from selling weapons and nuclear proliferation to every entity (state or non state) that is anti- west on the planet to directly attacking allied interests by partnering with anti-west nations.

The possibilities are huge. The chinese war machine is bigger and better than the American one. YES. That is not some jingoist pro-china nonsense but the fact. US MIC has a lot of self inflicted wounds that mke it unable to ever achieve the rapid production increases seen during 1940s.

The chance of a direct confrontation is extremely small ( though not impossible as Trump factor is there). But No, SCS won't / can't be scratched by US. It is safely in China's hands.

Blocking the Malacca is also impractical. If I were the chinese leadership, I'd initiate a policy of using Ballistic missiles to target every other merchant fleet / cargo transports that go through malacca. If China can't use malacca, then no country should be able to use it.\i'd send an oil tanker with Biological and Radioactive hazard waste through the malacca. Anyone that tries to blow it up risks the entire strait becoming polluted with hazards.

So many possibilities .... I'm really enjoying thinking about it.

As for Britain changing color .
Well, Britain is simply doing what any other nation would've done. Huawei for UK was a "leverage" to be used in the China- HK relations. They are merely using it. If UK kicked at Huawei early, they'd have far less in hand to put pressure on China. Londonistan isn't London.
All of this is pretty straightforward. I'm not sure why there is such a ruckus suddenly about UK decision.