News on China's scientific and technological development.

siegecrossbow said:

I personally know a lot of Chinese origin STEM talents who would love to stay in the US but there are two things working against them. Number one is the horrendous job market despite whatever bull shit number the White House has been cooking up for the past year or so. Number two is ass hole politicians like DeSantis doing their best to make Chinese nationals unhireable in the US for cheap political brownies points. Screws the jackasses across the political isles and may their careers crash and burn like those of many of my colleagues.

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Anecdotally, I can say that many recent graduates are quite practical. The ones who can find employers in the US willing to sponsor their visas mostly stay in the US (for as long as that is true). The ones who can't have no choice but to return home. In recent years, fewer and fewer people fall into the first category (for reasons both economic and political) while more and more fall into the second.

Shandong/Qingdao has put China's first fully domestic automated port terminal into operation. Qingdao is one of the busiest ports in the world

So here is another thing to think about. Oppo is looking to put satellite phone tech on its next gen phone. We will see how it get there, but Meizu/Geely is launching 11 satellites to support Meizu's own satellite communication support

Phead128 said:

That well within the limit of

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post-doctoral training (max 5 years + 3 years of AT training = 8 years)

Since you are specifically talking about STEM PhDs, the

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of STEM PhDs do a "

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" after graduation on an

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after which, they can apply for

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. That is total 8 years stay in US, which more than covers your 2000-2015 period. It's common to do 2 or more post-doctoral trainings because the competition is so fierce for tenure-track profession ships, so that can lead to over >10 years of you stack J-1 visa sponsorships.

Face it bro, what qualifies for "Brain drain" is permanent settlement of H1B/green cards, not temporary visas like F-1, J-1, OPT, or AT extensions that do not lead to permanent immigration. You can't cherry-pick the data without understanding the US immigration system, making sweeping conclusions on low-quality data.

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The researchers who did the Georgetown study claim that China is suffering from brain drain. It is you unwilling to accept their analysis.

If that is so why don’t you present your own data so that we can finish this argument, instead of talking about cherry picking and visa rules.

I have given my evidence, you give yours. That is what intelligent discussion is all about. We make claims and back it with evidence or or should I just accept your word for it.

donjasjit said:

The researchers who did the Georgetown study claim that China is suffering from brain drain of STEM PhDs over a 15-year period (2000-2015).

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Fixed that for you.

Georgetown study concluded STEM PHDs had a brain drain over a 15-year period (2000-2015), which is very very old data, and ignores STEM bachelors/master and non-STEM degrees. It ignores Trump-era data, and uses a long time-frame, which is outdated information by now, because we know Chinese students are leaving since Trump-era harassment.

donjasjit said:

If that is so why don’t you present your own data so that we can finish this argument, instead of talking about cherry picking and visa rules.

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Using data from your Georgetown Study, it provides evidence that majority of Chinese are temporary visas, not permanent settlement.

Here in 2014-2015, there is remarkable decline in the number of H1Bs, and significant increase in J-1 visas, OPT, AT extensions.


Source:

However, our findings suggest these fears of a “reverse brain drain” are largely unfounded, at least among STEM PhD graduates.17 If anything, available data supports the Chinese Communist Party’s concern that China is losing STEM talent to the United States and other countries.18

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First off this is incorrect, since there are only 6000 STEM PhDs from China every year who graduate, out of 290,000 Chinese international students who graduate every year, which is less than 2% of the annual student population. Ignores non-STEM fields and STEM masters/bachelors stay rates.

Second off, this "brain drain" conclusion is based on 15-years data (2000 to 2015) which is already outdated, missing the Trump-era trends from 2016 to present. If you go back to 1990's, the cumulative permanent settlement rate for Chinese can be 95% if you go back far enough, ignoring recent data.

Third, Georgetown university has 12% international student body, so they have a vested interest to avoid a Congressional ban on Chinese international students, which are an important source of tuition. This is why they intentionally ignored 2016-2022 data in their report.

donjasjit said:

The researchers who did the Georgetown study claim that China is suffering from brain drain. It is you unwilling to accept their analysis.

If that is so why don’t you present your own data so that we can finish this argument, instead of talking about cherry picking and visa rules.

I have given my evidence, you give yours. That is what intelligent discussion is all about. We make claims and back it with evidence or or should I just accept your word for it.

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Your idea of brain drain is severely oversimplified as it pertains to China. Do you think that brain drain is just the number of people going out vs the number coming in? If you sent 10 PhD students overseas and 9 came back, did you just get brain-drained by 1 or is that loss made up (or more than made up) by the training that the other 9 recieved?

Back decades ago, China was very poor and backward; we lost a huge portion of the students we sent abroad. Hardly anyone wanted to come back. But the ones who came back became gems because they studied technology that was far beyond what China had and could leapfrog Chinese tech with what they had learned. With their Western training, one person could lift China more than 100 who sat in China and just tried to figure things out with what we had. For example, if 100 Chinese PhD students left China, 98 stayed in the West working incrementally and linearly on Western science (of 98, honestly surely some of them went on to work non-scientific menial jobs as well), but one Qian SanQiang and one Qian Xuesen came back to develope nuclear weapons and modern rocketry for China, do you consider that brain drain?? Those 100 people, including the Qians themselves, couldn't do this if they all stayed in China. To calculate this purely by the number of people, China was severely brain-drained; to calculate this by advancement, China robbed the West blind.

Today, the balance is much different. Many more Chinese return home after graduation, but the gap is also much smaller in technology so instances where China can leap 20 years by one or 2 returning geniuses are also basically nonexistent because the West no longer has that kind of advantage over China. In the end, by pure number, China's still surely being "drained" but there are no free lunches for the West; those who return with their training completed will be worth more than the whole number who left to seek education. This is brain circulation. China benefits or we wouldn't allow it. But the West also benefits because Western science would suffer tremendously without Chinese talent. It's a game of who can benefit more and judging by China's rise, I'd say the answer is clear.

2024 is the year when MR glass products really take off with Apple, HW and probably Xiaomi all getting into it


Very China heavy supply chain so far

A good sum up of some highlights of China's technological achievements in 2023:

He didn't even mention some of the major ones like WS-15 and WS-20 engines coming online, or China's GPT-like Chatbots such as ErnieBot coming online. Overall, good progress in China's technological capability this year. I swear, the biggest motivator and fuel is U.S. sanctions. The more the U.S. bans its companies from selling to China, the more China develops itself. As China becomes more technologically advanced, I sure hope it doesn't resort to over-using export controls and shoot itself in the foot like the U.S. is. Chinese companies should maximize their global market share and the more exports the better.

gadgetcool5 said:

A good sum up of some highlights of China's technological achievements in 2023:

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He didn't even mention some of the major ones like WS-15 and WS-20 engines coming online, or China's GPT-like Chatbots such as ErnieBot coming online. Overall, good progress in China's technological capability this year. I swear, the biggest motivator and fuel is U.S. sanctions. The more the U.S. bans its companies from selling to China, the more China develops itself. As China becomes more technologically advanced, I sure hope it doesn't resort to over-using export controls and shoot itself in the foot like the U.S. is. Chinese companies should maximize their global market share and the more exports the better.

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Wow!! Is this really @gadgetcool5 or his account may have been a subject of a hack because the comment seems a bit off, it sounded like a wumao would say about China.
















I am just messing with you. Happy New Year to you and your loved ones. All the best to us all for this 2024!!

Bellum_Romanum said:

Wow!! Is this really @gadgetcool5 or his account may have been a subject of a hack because the comment seems a bit off, it sounded like a wumao would say about China.
















I am just messing with you. Happy New Year to you and your loved ones. All the best to us all for this 2024!!

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No, that's normal. He mixes some Wumao in there to prevent from getting Goomba-stomped to death on this forum. But he's still gotta slide something in there, like that last bit about exports, to sneakily hint that China can't stand up and trade punches but needs good relations with the West for exports.