News on China's scientific and technological development.

Coalescence said:

I think a lot of users here are tired debating about whether soft power is important or not, which is why there are some heated response. Personally, I think its nice to have, but not equally important as manufacturing and R&D. The competition in the field of entertainment is also very fierce and saturated, and it doesn't help with China's image being demonized by propaganda and handicapped by regulations and censorship. So they should at least invest a bit into cultural products like South Korea did with their entertainment industry, but don't put too much significance on it.

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It's not just cultural products. Soft power can be achieved in many ways. China having its own bank with large investment is soft power. China having its own Internet eco system is soft power. China using Yuan in trade is soft power. Having other countries using Valuepay/alipay instead of visa/mastercard is soft power. High end Chinese restaurants is soft power. As I mentioned in SCS thread, selling high end cars to other countries is soft power.

I'm in Singapore right now and you can feel Chinese soft power. It's good to have your industries, but let's not diminish the importance of a lot of other industries that gives you soft power around the world.

ZeEa5KPul said:

Personally, I don't see the point in being competitive in something so frivolous as pop music and television dramas and I don't lose a moment's sleep over it. Perhaps you can explain to us the use of China performing well in the entertainment industry - what does that buy China? Military advantage in WESTPAC? More widespread use of the RMB? Anything worthwhile?

In fact, I can see a lot of societal benefit to the CPC coming down on the entertainment industry (or the deviant elements of it) as it's currently doing.

I think that's a strawman. Nobody disputes the fact that China needs a strong services sector with world-leading companies in finance, software, etc. What we dispute is the utility of what gets called "soft power" and why it's worthwhile to have more globally popular video games or pop bands.

I'm zero kelvin chill. What I wrote is simply the truth - why do you think English is spoken by white Europeans in places like North America and Australia? Did that spread by "soft power"?

I need people to understand a very important point: China trying to win by competing in the present order is a mug's game. China wins by overthrowing the present order and establishing its own.

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If you don't agree, then make your points. Don't use languages that you would not say in public.

Franklin said:

Softpower is very important. The ability to dominate the narrative is sometimes more powerful than any industrial or military capability. I have posted here before that American/Western propaganda is wielded like a surgeons knife. While Chinese propaganda is wielded like a sledge hammer. Now even more so under Xi. The reason is freedom of speech. That allows people to express themselves freely that in turn creates rhetoric and artistic creativity. Freedom of speech is something that China sorely lacks at the moment.

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Sure. My point is that while it's important to be strong in technology and military, let's not ignore the importance of other professions. It's important to be flexible and grow your influences in different ways. You can do the without having a full economy of lawyers and private equity guys.

Franklin said:

However I also think the Americans have become a victim of their own success. They are so good at shaping the narative that they now begin to believe
their own good press. They are so good at downplaying their own faults that they are now underestimating their own problems. What is even worse is that today America/Democratic World is a place where everyone has a opinion but no one has a solution to their problems. Because there is no consensus. Everyone these days wants to have their say about everything but very few people are willing to admit that they are wrong about anything. There is endless bickering amongst each other while the problems around them are piling up. And that is also the downside of freedom of speech. If everyone is allowed to talk then no one is saying anything.

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I think we've all seen on these threads how much success China has had in growing in these major technology fields. It will have great success in the ones it focused on. I think there are a lot of people in America concerned about losing supply chain and de-industrializing. Some other western countries are also concerned. And their solution to losing their technology advantage is blocking access. As such, it's critical for China to hit accelerators in its development and be the leaders in many of these fields.

I was talking to a couple of friends recently and one of them is Korean. I mentioned to him that I think Japan peaked in 1989 and Korea has also peaked a few years ago and its industries are vulnerable to Chinese industrial growth. And he agrees with me. Our European friend doesn't know that Korea has already peaked. Give it until the end of this decade. I think China's increasing technology prowess would have significant impact on former industrial leaders. Can you imagine what will happen in Japan and Germany when their automakers are close to bankruptcy because Chinese EV makers take over large portion of their market share?

dengyeye said:

I find soft power to be greatly overrated on this forum. People seem to have this obsession with China replicating anime or k-drama as if it's do or die. Cute little femboys prancing around a stage with makeup on won't help in a Taiwan contingency. 095 attack submarines will.

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China has plenty of soft power. It's just not the worthless kind that the West and other Asians already tricked into believing are promoting. I pointed out before something like printing was invented by the China. The West would be full of illiterates that don't know how to read because before printing, books were rare because they were hand written that only the elites possessed. The West wouldn't be where they're at today without printing. Is the West appreciative to the Chinese for that? No. That's why their version of soft power is worthless because they still don't like the Chinese after China gave them a gift to why they're at where they're now. They'll deny that they ever said this but when this soft power they claim China lacks first was ever discussed, they used yoga from India as an example of how India had soft power while China did not. What does yoga have to do with any kind of power at all? It's because Westerners practice yoga meaning they like it. And how is that a plus for India? What does it do? Maybe Westerners will be less likely to kill an Indian out of their racism but on the other hand a Chinese... You know what else makes the West less likely to kill Chinese? The Chinese having nukes. The fear of losing their lives and/or their possessions if they go out and try to harm a Chinese just for being Chinese. The West can easily forget yoga like the West forgets about printing. And it's not like the West has ever respected the Chinese for printing. So this is all recently made up crap to manipulate people into thinking it's important for the West to like you, aka knowing your place below them blindly obeying without question any one of their commands. Just look at how upset they get just because China doesn't call Putin's war an "invasion". It doesn't change anything if China did call it an invasion. It shouldn't be surprising that how much weight that they put behind being liked by them is equivalent to the hate they put behind when you don't simply use the right words to their liking. Their version of soft power the West is in 100% control on whether they like you or not. They have zero control when China has nukes. Which one is more comforting to have?

tphuang said:

If you don't agree, then make your points. Don't use languages that you would not say in public.

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I have made my points quite clearly, but perhaps my reiterating them would be helpful. It's nice but ultimately unimportant that Chinese EV makers take market share from Japanese and German automakers. Market share in automobiles is something a normal country - a regular participant of the "rules-based order" - concerns itself with. China is not a normal country and it isn't a participant in anyone's order; China should set the rules.

Becoming the most powerful state on Earth is what China should concern itself with. If conquering certain industries like semiconductors and advanced manufacturing builds China's strength to challenge and topple the US, to expel it from the western Pacific at gunpoint, that's fantastic. That should be what China invests its efforts and resources in.

By the way, what language do you think I wouldn't use in public? The rhetoric I've used here I've used in person as well.

AssassinsMace said:

China has plenty of soft power. It's just not the worthless kind that the West and other Asians already tricked into believing are promoting. I pointed out before something like printing was invented by the China. The West would be full of illiterates that don't know how to read because before printing, books were rare because they were hand written that only the elites possessed. The West wouldn't be where they're at today without printing. Is the West appreciative to the Chinese for that? No. That's why their version of soft power is worthless because they still don't like the Chinese after China gave them a gift to why they're at where they're now. They'll deny that they ever said this but when this soft power they claim China lacks first was ever discussed, they used yoga from India as an example of how India had soft power while China did not. What does yoga have to do with any kind of power at all? It's because Westerners practice yoga meaning they like it. And how is that a plus for India? What does it do? Maybe Westerners will be less likely to kill an Indian out of their racism but on the other hand a Chinese... You know what else makes the West less likely to kill Chinese? The Chinese having nukes. The fear of losing their lives and/or their possessions if they go out and try to harm a Chinese just for being Chinese. The West can easily forget yoga like the West forgets about printing. And it's not like the West has ever respected the Chinese for printing. So this is all recently made up crap to manipulate people into thinking it's important for the West to like you, aka knowing your place below them blindly obeying without question any one of their commands. Just look at how upset they get just because China doesn't call Putin's war an "invasion". It doesn't change anything if China did call it an invasion. It shouldn't be surprising that how much weight that they put behind being liked by them is equivalent to the hate they put behind when you don't simply use the right words to their liking. Their version of soft power the West is in 100% control on whether they like you or not. They have zero control when China has nukes. Which one is more comforting to have?

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yoga is not soft power. There's not a single instance of Indians anywhere in the world benefiting from yoga. Not even as yoga instructors, as most are middle aged white women. further proof that their idea of "soft power" is BS.

Back on topic please. This is a technology thread.

The soft power and the software tech are important in this way IMHO.

The hard tech, or manufacturing of those widgets, that is the base.

The soft power and the software, integrates the base with all other things, creating a network type of effect, streamlining operations, improving efficiency, allowing everyone to make more money, including those manufacturers who underpin this whole system.

Improvement in soft power and software, in turn, will improve manufacturing.

The best example is TikTok, and now Shien.

TikTok moves product via the influencers. Then that generates immediate feedback, which improves the original product. Also, the network must be able to handle that load (the internet data traffic), and that the backend must work too (such as the servers, cloud, database).

For TikTok to be a big success, everything in this tech setup must work. That is the part where Xi Jinping may or may not understand. Very few understand how tech work today.

PaaS, SaaS, IaaS, and maybe there is PaaS. These platforms are important. This is the future of society. That is why TikTok fascinates me. I have no use for TikTok, but I know that is the future.

TikTok, can only exist on these "platforms" which is basically your software or we can even call soft power. But you see, all that hardware that Huawei and et al makes, that is part of the platform too. Everything is part of the platform. The hardware and software have to work together to improve each other.

There is a real soft power war between the United States and China, and that is over tech. The Untied States says no one should trust Chinese tech, and everyone should trust American tech. That is the soft power argument from President Trump and the Biden people. The Chinese counter with a classic business proposition, we got the best stuff and best deal, (and the buyer should know that locking the system you bought from China is your job not ours). (Besides, the quantum communications networks China is building will eventually go worldwide, making that untrustworthy argument irrelevant).

Blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah.

Actually, just getting started with this, and seems too much already.

To sum up, American soft power, in the tech realm, is in your face style. China soft power in the tech realm is more subtle, but it there.

Look at Shein. Is that an example of American soft power? All the kids think it is really cool.

Heh.

siegecrossbow said:

Back on topic please. This is a technology thread.

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That is what we are talking about.

Technology has to be adapted and used.

Why is something adapted and accepted by users?

Because it is cool.

TikTok and Shein are loved by the kids. The kids know what cool is.

Then it all starts, where TikTok and Shein, and all the Chinese manufacturers directly or indirectly involved in these operations, they all start making money and improving their technology.

You know, I am not a feminist, but they use this term, inter-sectionalism.

That of course, is complete bullshit. However, here I am using this inter-sectionalism, because it is there!

That is why I think one day, they will eventually arrest my reactionary ass. Not saying I don't deserve it, but still ...

Before anyone starts a discussion on hard/soft power, their definitions should be laid out so that everyone knows the templates to use for guidance. Otherwise, people will choose or deny the meaning to suit their points.

t2contra said:

Before anyone starts a discussion on hard/soft power, their definitions should be laid out so that everyone knows the templates to use for guidance. Otherwise, people will choose or deny the meaning to suit their points.

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But how can anyone define it?

It is like saying someone or some group of people would definitively define what culture should be. Those high priests don't exist in my opinion.

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For example, lets look at Shein again.

That is fast fashion. Some designer in China, makes this item, around 10-20 pieces, and try to sell it. If it moves, then they make 200 items and try to sell that. If that works, then they got a hit, and the textile factories will churn that out.

There is the rub. The Western kids are buying into Chinese designer creations.

In the past, people like that professor who always pushes American soft power, their example they would use is that other peoples would start wearing blue jeans, which are clothing worn by the American cowboy and cowgirl. To that professor, that is proof of American soft power.

Chinese soft power today, is delivered via tech. If we use the same principle that others want to wear the American designed cowboy jeans, then Chinese soft power is going gangbusters through TikTok and Shein.

(The only difference here between America and China, is that that professor would boast about the blue jeans, whereas the Chinese already got your money, so they don't say much after that, other thank you very much, please shop here again).

That is why the soft power is important.

The more soft power that China generates via tech, it will snowball and the tech becomes better too.

horse said:

But how can anyone define it?

It is like saying someone or some group of people would definitively define what culture should be. Those high priests don't exist in my opinion.

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For example, lets look at Shein again.

That is fast fashion. Some designer in China, makes this item, around 10-20 pieces, and try to sell it. If it moves, then they make 200 items and try to sell that. If that works, then they got a hit, and the textile factories will churn that out.

There is the rub. The Western kids are buying into Chinese designer creations.

In the past, people like that professor who always pushes American soft power, their example they would use is that other peoples would start wearing blue jeans, which are clothing worn by the American cowboy and cowgirl. To that professor, that is proof of American soft power.

Chinese soft power today, is delivered via tech. If we use the same principle that others want to wear the American designed cowboy jeans, then Chinese soft power is going gangbusters through TikTok and Shein.

(The only difference here between America and China, is that that professor would boast about the blue jeans, whereas the Chinese already got your money, so they don't say much after that, other thank you very much, please shop here again).

That is why the soft power is important.

The more soft power that China generates via tech, it will snowball and the tech becomes better too.

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If there is no guideline, everyone is wasting his time discussing.