News on China's scientific and technological development.

Mcsweeney

Junior Member
Here are my thoughts on soft power and hard power, why both of them are important, and how they overlap and feed into each other.

First, some definitions:
Hard power is anything that improves China's capabilities.
Soft power is anything that improves people's perceptions of China.

Let us start with military power. This, of course, is the classic example of hard power. Not only does it allow a country to defend itself, bully other countries, intimidate other countries, or lay claim to a piece of territory that's in dispute, it also allows them to export military equipment, which not only strengthens its allies, but causes money to flow into the country. However, even the military has soft power implications. Because there is such a thing as fanboys of military equipment. A powerful military will also create a sense of awe in people from other countries. Look at when the United States was at its peak power relative to other countries in the 1990s, when they crushed Iraq in the Gulph War and were flying around stealth bombers when no other country had anything even close to that feat of technology and engineering. America was #1 and everyone knew it.

What about high speed rail? This has significant hard power implications because it improves China's transport capabilities, facilitates economic activity, and the high speed rail itself is technological advancement. But it also has soft power implications when people see how China went from zero high speed rail in 2008 to an entire, comprehensive network spanning the entire country. People are impressed by this and in awe at the efficiency of the Chinese government, in contrast to their own incompetent government that has wasted billions of dollars on the California high speed rail project since 2008 with absolutely nothing to show for it. People will be more likely to want to visit China as a tourist if they know they can get around the country easily by taking high speed rail. People also respect that China is doing its part to reduce emissions by building all this rail.

What about the automotive industry? A robust automotive industry is hard power because it's technological advancement and generates significant amounts of revenue. But it's also soft power due to the prestige of being a country known for building high-quality automobiles; just look at how people use the phrase "German engineering" and consider the purchase of a Mercedes Benz or BMW as the ultimate piece of prestige. This then feeds back into hard power as people will pay whatever it takes to buy a German product, allowing more money to flow into the country's coffers, which pays for more technological advancement.

What about cultural products? I'll use Genshin Impact as an example since it's the hottest Chinese cultural export right now. People think of things like this as mainly soft power. And it's true; Genshin Impact integrates visuals and music showcasing Chinese culture and when people see how beautifully it's done, it improves their perception of China. Even if the game didn't have any Chinese cultural elements, people would respect the country for creating a piece of art that they enjoy, just as how people fanboy over Japan because they are obsessed with its video games and anime. This game has definitely changed people's perceptions of China who had no idea they were capable of making such a thing; they thought it was just a cold, bleak country where everybody works in a factory and nothing of artistic merit is ever done. However, the game also has hard power implications to the extent that some people spend a huge amount of money on this game. That money flows into Mihoyo's bank account, which is taxed by the Chinese government, which they can then use to build infrastructure, buy jet fighters, whatever they want. A robust video game industry also facilitates technological advancement with the development of 3D graphics, animation, etc. and as Chinese video games/shows/music become higher in demand, this creates more soft power, and more money flows into the country, allowing them to improve their capabilities even more, which allows them to create more soft power, and on and on it goes.

So both are important and both feed into each other. There's no need to separate the two and say one is the only thing that's important when they are inextricably linked.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
We're OT, so my last post in this thread.

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Basically:
This soft power – getting others to want the outcomes you want – co-opts people rather than coerces them.
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It can be contrasted with '
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', which is the use of coercion and payment.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
China lacks soft power largely because every script/song/video game has to be sent to 60 year old officials in Beijing for approval. Until that changes we are not going to see donghua competing with anime, or c-drama competing with k-drama. Lol China can't even keep up with Hong Kong and Taiwan here. Western propaganda obviously doesn't help, but even if the west loved China it wouldn't matter because Chinese shows just aren't that good to begin with...
Just like I said before. Ignore this. Cultural investment increases as a society gets wealthier. Then you will start seeing those things show up naturally. There is no point in fretting over it.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
"Initially a low-cost producer of inexpensive consumer goods, China became the world’s largest manufacturer in 2010 and accounted for 29% of global manufacturing value added in 2019 – a 20-point increase over 2000. During that time, the U.S. share dropped from 26% to 18%.

R&D-intensive industry output tells a similar story. In medium-high R&D intensive industries, China has overtaken the U.S., its share of
global value-added output increasing from 7% in 2003 to 26% by 2018, while the U.S. share dropped from 25% to 22%.

The U.S. National Science Foundation further found that, over that same period, in high R&D intensive industries China’s share of global value-added increase from 6% to 21%, while America’s share declined from 38% to 32%."


belfercenter.org/publication/great-economic-rivalry-china-vs-us
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
An interesting point made by the analyst, Karlin, on how the economies of scale achieved by the US enabled it to excel in tech and AI, which it uses for intelligence and SIGINT in Ukraine to Russian detriment.

Only China with its tech and economy of scale can match the west’s strategic depth.
Russia does have some AI industry and tech. It might not be in the scale of the Chinese one. But not as bad as his argument would make you think. For example Yandex has robotaxis and autonomous delivery robots. And that is the civilian side.
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The Su-35 has automatic target recognition from a library of targets and gives you assists with indications on how to handle a target. The processing is done with Russian designed DSPs. I actually looked at the datasheet for those and their instruction set is basically variable bit length matrix multiplications. Which is exactly what you need for neural networks...
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So yes. A neural network accelerator chip family from 1999 which is still developed to this day and used in loads of applications.
I still remember back then most people thought neural networks were something you would only use for product sorting in a factory at best...
 
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tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
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Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
Soft power matters. There’s a huge lag between the growth of China’s hard power vs it’s soft power.

Soft power is something you have to actively pursue and work on. It doesn’t happen automatically as you gain more hard power.

If people of East Asia or Eurasia were all listening to Chinese pop music, classical music, watching Chinese tv dramas, etc… and had very positive image of China, it would be easier for China to achieve its hard power objectives in these areas. It would be even harder for US to isolate China.
 

Chish

Junior Member
Registered Member
China lacks soft power largely because every script/song/video game has to be sent to 60 year old officials in Beijing for approval. Until that changes we are not going to see donghua competing with anime, or c-drama competing with k-drama. Lol China can't even keep up with Hong Kong and Taiwan here. Western propaganda obviously doesn't help, but even if the west loved China it wouldn't matter because Chinese shows just aren't that good to begin with...
People say "China lack soft power" because they are seeing it from a western point of view and western standards are the only standards applied. According to them it is considered propoganda in We against them, winner takes all mentally.
But like all things, China do things differently and always with Chinese characteristics. Since China applications of soft power doesn't confirm to their norms it is considered inferior or failing and are very vocal about it.
 

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
Soft power matters. There’s a huge lag between the growth of China’s hard power vs it’s soft power.

Soft power is something you have to actively pursue and work on. It doesn’t happen automatically as you gain more hard power.

If people of East Asia or Eurasia were all listening to Chinese pop music, classical music, watching Chinese tv dramas, etc… and had very positive image of China, it would be easier for China to achieve its hard power objectives in these areas. It would be even harder for US to isolate China.

It is the advances in science, technology, social and environmental spheres that count and hold others who are less fortunate in awe. These advances come along with the laying down of plumbings in the build up of a nation's comprehensive power. This notion of soft power has become so gay a buzzword that's overused and pointless on its own.

Thus, let's call this phenomenon a gay power for a change of scenery to the benefit of agnostics , not the cliche soft power which is vague and omnipresent, though very important as gospels to true believers, regardless.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Soft power matters. There’s a huge lag between the growth of China’s hard power vs it’s soft power.

Soft power is something you have to actively pursue and work on. It doesn’t happen automatically as you gain more hard power.

If people of East Asia or Eurasia were all listening to Chinese pop music, classical music, watching Chinese tv dramas, etc… and had very positive image of China, it would be easier for China to achieve its hard power objectives in these areas. It would be even harder for US to isolate China.
In 2011, Chinese people watched Japanese anime, drove Japanese cars, listened to Japanese pop music.
In 2012, Chinese people rioted, looted Japanese stores, smashed Japanese cars.

Why was Japanese soft power unable to stop this?

In 2018 Kpop was super popular in Japan. In 2019, Japan sanctioned South Korea for an obscure legal ruling about events that happened before South Korea even existed.

Why was Korean soft power unable to stop this?

Now, imagine Japanese or Koreans looting/burning Chinese assets. Or sanctioning China on their own. Can't do it? Hard power.
 
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