New Type98/99 MBT thread

[fishhead]

Fishhead, are you a tanker? I am and what Golly is saying is true. Humping shells is humping shells. I am only 5'6" (160cm) tall so your speaking out your a**.

It's irrelevent to what's you personal opinion. I am talking the Chinese reason.

Actually in early 80s Chinese evalution shows that Nato 120 gun is better than Russian 125 gun, as for the fire power. But they can't use it.

Chinese anti-tank gun is 120 indeed.

 

[Gollevainen]

Definitely not true, in a constrained space, you need more muscle

actually you need lot les as you can support yourself to the surrounding....

And the reason we are doing this is becouse You have allready made fool out of yourself by claiming something that isent true (remember the reason PD Popeye banned you for week?)

So other than telling, "many western sources claims this and that" why dont you eloberate what particular sources? Janes? Other publications....
....or some internet sites? The idea of this whole depate is that the orgins of the gun isent verified in any 'respectable' source but remains an open guestion DESPITE some Chinese factors are (by their unfortunate habbit ) stick to the ever rumour sounding most fittest

 

[fishhead]

Ok, as a person anybody can claim that he doesn't have any problem to carry and load 40 lbs tank shell in the moving situation.

But Chinese don't like that idea obviously, neither Japanese.

I won't argue about any personal experience here.

 

[zraver]

Modern tanks that still use a 4 man crew set up have a gun elevation disconnect switch. In the Abrams it is called the El Uncouple. What this does is bring the gun to 0 elevation relative to the hull so that the gun can be loaded. 4 man crew tanks can still fire as quickly as autoloaders. They also can fight longer and do maintence tasks faster.

Height inside tanks simply determines how much you can move around. I am the average size of a citizen of the PRC 5'6" 140lbs and I had zero problems humping shells, working as part of a team to swab a barrel, or guide track etc.

Autoloaders are done to reduce long term operational costs during peace time. in combat they are a liability. breakdowns, reduced ammo, increasing crew work load and reducing air/night watch are just a few issues.

 

[optionsss]

I actually though the autoloaders were used to make sure the tank can fire on the go, esp when it is moving over tough terran. But anyways, zraver, you served in the US army right? Did you guys have to eat inside your tank during long military exersice. I readed it some where the PLA tankers during some joint exersice had to eat while remain in their tank. That's just say most of them thought the whole experience was not very pleasant. Did you guys have to do the same thing, what's it like?

 

[zraver]

you can eat in a Abrams, its easy enough, food doesn't take much room. Rough was doing MOPP drills in the old M-60A3TTS or M1/M1IP's that didn't have NBC over pressure systems. You'd be in a charcoaled suit inside a tank as hot as 125f in the summer.

 

[crobato]

German actually wanted to copy the T-34, they did a thorough research on it. But the Russian tank engine was made of aluminum while Germany's always steel, so they abandoned the idea.

That's not really true. Daimler Benz did send a proposal that was a virtual clone of the T-34. German nationalism however, could not accept a copy, so they went to MAN's, which had a more complex design. The rest became history as the design became the Panther tank. Excellent tank, probably the best in WWII, but it was way overengineered. So often, the German passion for engineering overweighed much more practical tactical concerns.

 

[Pointblank]

German technology? Austrian L7 was pretty much the last western tank piece PRC had direct access to.

The NATO L7 gun is not Austrian in origin: It's British (Designed by Royal Ordinance). The gun technology just happened to come from Austria to China.

I actually though the autoloaders were used to make sure the tank can fire on the go, esp when it is moving over tough terran. But anyways, zraver, you served in the US army right? Did you guys have to eat inside your tank during long military exersice. I readed it some where the PLA tankers during some joint exersice had to eat while remain in their tank. That's just say most of them thought the whole experience was not very pleasant. Did you guys have to do the same thing, what's it like?

It is difficult for any tank to make use of its maximum rate of fire of its main gun during combat conditions. It is highly unlikely that a tank will encounter a target rich environment, both during the Cold War in the Fulda Gap, and today, due to battlefield conditions (reduced visibility hides targets).

 

[zraver]

Autoloaders are all about the cost. A Human loader is easily twice as expensive over the life of the tank as a machine. You have to pay some one to load the tank, you have to pay for thier training, and you have to repace them yearly, for 20-30+ years. Once you buy an autoloader with the exception of routine maintence your costs are done.

 

[fishhead]

That's not really true. Daimler Benz did send a proposal that was a virtual clone of the T-34. German nationalism however, could not accept a copy, so they went to MAN's, which had a more complex design. The rest became history as the design became the Panther tank. Excellent tank, probably the best in WWII, but it was way overengineered. So often, the German passion for engineering overweighed much more practical tactical concerns.

I read it from a book borrowed from the local library. The book is about the WW2 tank warfare(actually mainly German tank ww2 history), written by a British officier.

When German-Soviet started, bulk of German tank force were P3. And they never had enough number to match Soviet tanks, so naturally the army at the front strongly asked to have a tank good enough, large in number to use. Germany tanks are good, esp P4 and P5, but their production rate was 1/5 of Russian's, the tanks were designed too complex for manufacturing.

Germans were serious to make a simple tank based on modification of T-34, but at the end they couldn't. Part of T-34 technology was from US.