New Type98/99 MBT thread

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Oh give me aa Break... War existed long before the US and NATO and will long After it's a product of Human nature. More people have been Slaughtered with Farming Implement then DU rounds and Bombs.

 

[plawolf]

Tungsten alloys might be toxic, but the big difference is that Tungsten residue doesn't stay toxic for 4.5bn years.

The expectation of where future wars might be fought also plays a big part in the choice of material for munitions.

There no realistic scenario within the foreseeable future where American military forces might engage in a large scale conventional war on CONUS soil.

For everyone else, there are is the real prospect that possible future wars may be fought on their own soil, so the long term environmental impact of certain munitions types will have to be weighed carefully in deciding what materials to use.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

I think your over dramatizing. The Amount of Uranium-238 in Depleted uranium is less then that of Naturally occurring Uranium.

 

[Lezt]

I think your over dramatizing. The Amount of Uranium-238 in Depleted uranium is less then that of Naturally occurring Uranium.

I think you have to be very careful with that statement,

The amount of U238 in DU is less that the amount of U238 in Urainium ore. But having a DU round next to you will increase the local radiation level beyond natural background levels.

The issues goes beyond the round itself, if a M1A2 is blown up with a full ammunition load, there would be quite a bit of scattered DU in the immediate vicinity including the DU employed in the armor. there would be a lot less contamination if a DU round is stuck in a Leo or T90.

 

[plawolf]

Indeed, the matter is exacerbated by the nature of the radiation DU gives off and what happens when DU rounds impact a target.

DU and natural uranium gives off alpha particles which can't penetrate the skin, so are relatively low risk, especially in its natural, stable state.

A DU round that hits a target creates a lot of fine DU dust, which can be inhaled, or more likely, contaminate the local water and/or food supply and get into the human body.

Once past the natural human defense to radiation of the skin, even small doses of radiation can be very harmful.

 

[valapak]

the problem with DU isnt the radioactivity, its a metal and when it hits a target, tiny particles of uranium dust flys everywhere and when you breath this ......

iraq is completely DU contaminated, because of the use of the allied forces in tanks....
and there mutch childs die because their parents are contamineted with uranium dust....

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Okay
the parts per million of Uraniam Dust in Iraq is not only the result of US rounds. In the 1990's when the First Gulf War took place the US, UK and middle eastern Nations used DU rounds. Second the contamination and mutation issues in Iraq can be sourced to Burning oil wells and Sadam's uses of Chemical weapons particularly Nerve Agents at that mean that the Iraqi population is already suffering form Mutations and birth issues form exposure of a domestic origin. this means that using Iraq to Prove "DU mutations" is not a clean sampling.

 

[Lezt]

Okay
the parts per million of Uraniam Dust in Iraq is not only the result of US rounds. In the 1990's when the First Gulf War took place the US, UK and middle eastern Nations used DU rounds. Second the contamination and mutation issues in Iraq can be sourced to Burning oil wells and Sadam's uses of Chemical weapons particularly Nerve Agents at that mean that the Iraqi population is already suffering form Mutations and birth issues form exposure of a domestic origin. this means that using Iraq to Prove "DU mutations" is not a clean sampling.

I don't think Valapak contradicts,

he did say allied forces; not just the USA

mutations by uranium dust; to know if it is uranium dust that caused the mutation is another question; but what is known is pre war background radiation levels and post war background radiation levels.

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Iraqi researchers’ site measurements of 2000 revealed the fact that the Muthana governorate and Al-Samawa city were contaminated since 1991. This fact was proven by the Dutch troops in 2003, and then the American Guardsmen who served in that area after the invasion and confirmed exposure to DU contamination after coming back home by Dr. Drakovic

I mean, no chemical weapons were used in 2003, only in 1991. which means that the chemical weapons would have broken down by 2003. if dutch and american troops shows consistent symptoms to DU exposure in 2003, would that more likely be DU?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Well whatever the answer its beyond the scope of our discussion. This began as trying to sort out claims that the PRC used DU in the 125mm class gun used in the Type 99. Claims of the effects of US rounds matter little to that topic.

 

[antiterror13]

On an even playing field? Doubtful.

Where's the need for M1A2/Leopard2 tanks? The US alliance isn't crazy enough to land troops on China's coast; Russian border is demilitarized; there's no Fulda Gap scenario with India; Taiwan is slowly being reabsorbed (peacefully) by the Mainland; smaller countries like Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, and North Korea pose little threat to the Middle Kingdom. For the first time since the height of the Qing dynasty, China is secure on land, so she's better off using her limited resources for navy, coast guard, air force, space, and cyber modernizations.

100% agree. China doesn't need fancy super expensive M1A2 or Leo 2A6. Type 99A2 may not be as good as those two best tanks, but 99A2 is extremely good, at least 90% as good as M1A2 with only 1/3 or even 1/4 the price ... so much better value

2 Type 99A2 would beat a single M1A2 or Leo 2A6 anytime (all other scenarios are the same), especially on China soil.

I don't see any land war invasion on China soil in a foreseable future ..... just impossible to imagine