New J-10 thread II

[sinowarrior]

yea, su-27ers thought they could use cloud and fod and mountain terrian as a cover for a surprise BVR attack, but once the su-27s were in the air and before they can form into any fighting formations, they were attacked by j-10s and they lost double digit planes, total annihilation, which suggest the entire regiment was wiped out.

 

[daveyi]

it's a made up story...even the author claims so...in the beginning he says hes just making it up, and at the end hes asking someone too make up the specifics of the battle

 

[sinowarrior]

it is claimed to be made up, but he made an interesting disclaimer 声明一下：如有雷同，纯属巧合。which means if it is similar to another "story", it is only pure coincidence, which suggest it will be similar to a true story. or it was the true story but just "made it up"

 

[xuansu]

Even if this is true, it doesn't really mean anything. The story says the Su-27 didn't even get a chance to form into formation before they were attacked. That means the J-10 were in the air well before the Su-27 took off. You will get the same kind of one sided score even if it's F-22 been jumped right after take off.

 

[crobato]

It does say something---a lot. Much less of the planes, but more of the pilots and the units. Even if the story is semi-fictional, everything about it seems very plausible.

Thumbs down for the Su-27 pilots for letting their guard down and depending too much in formations. If this is indeed the 33rd Division regiment in Chongging, Sichuan, thumbs down even more since that group happens to be an instructor and training group, and those flying the planes must either be top flight instructors or their students or both.

Thumbs up for the J-10 pilots, which I believe is probably the Yunnan group, the dudes in the 44th Division, for being fast, aggressive and training like they are actually fighting. That's what a fighter pilot should do---fight below the belt, and do not take or make excuses.

 

[tphuang]

A video interviewing some one pretty high up in the J-10 project. The title of the report is called Air Force's equipments in Modern Battlefield.

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I actually haven't been able to watch this video, because it's so slow. But according to the people that have seen it.
It says that the combat radius of J-10 is 1100 km (something that was announced before for 3 external tanks + 2 PL-12 + 2 PL-8.
And the surprising part is that the detection range of J-10's radar was mentionned as 150 km. Not sure what the target size is though.

 

[crobato]

The Kong Jung Bao or PLAAF official journal has a picture of J-10s in hangers being maintained by service microvans. One of the vans had the logo of the 2nd Division, and this once and for all confirms the existance of a J-10 regiment in the 2nd Division. Picture posted by Deino in the CDF.

And the surprising part is that the detection range of J-10's radar was mentioned as 150 km. Not sure what the target size is though

Its rather expected or typical for a radar of this size and caliber. As a note the readout for the APG-66 used in the F-16A reads up to 150km, and the readout for the GD-53 (APG-67 variant) on the F-CK-1 reads up to 147km.

Actual detection range depends on the RCS of the target and its altitude in relation to the plane. Instrumentation will of course, need to show the best case or maximum allowable detection range.

 

[tphuang]

The Kong Jung Bao or PLAAF official journal has a picture of J-10s in hangers being maintained by service microvans. One of the vans had the logo of the 2nd Division, and this once and for all confirms the existance of a J-10 regiment in the 2nd Division. Picture posted by Deino in the CDF.



Its rather expected or typical for a radar of this size and caliber. As a note the readout for the APG-66 used in the F-16A reads up to 150km, and the readout for the GD-53 (APG-67 variant) on the F-CK-1 reads up to 147km.

Actual detection range depends on the RCS of the target and its altitude in relation to the plane. Instrumentation will of course, need to show the best case or maximum allowable detection range.

I don't think they were talking about the maximum search range, I think they were talking about the detection range against fighter size target. Although of course, I need to watch the whole video.

 

[xuansu]

It does say something---a lot. Much less of the planes, but more of the pilots and the units. Even if the story is semi-fictional, everything about it seems very plausible.

Thumbs down for the Su-27 pilots for letting their guard down and depending too much in formations. If this is indeed the 33rd Division regiment in Chongging, Sichuan, thumbs down even more since that group happens to be an instructor and training group, and those flying the planes must either be top flight instructors or their students or both.

Thumbs up for the J-10 pilots, which I believe is probably the Yunnan group, the dudes in the 44th Division, for being fast, aggressive and training like they are actually fighting. That's what a fighter pilot should do---fight below the belt, and do not take or make excuses.

Fighting below the belt is all good in a real war, but not so when it's an exercise. Unless this is a free for all exercise and raiding the opponent base is allowed, the J-10 unit jumping the gun just rendered the whole exercise a waste of time and money. There's nothing new learned from this score, other than J-10 can indeed lock on to Su-27 in relative bad weather, which they should know full well before letting J-10 enter service. If they wanted to practice shooting ducks in a row, they would have done that on a simulator.

 

[Twix101]

Hi everyone,


I've read the last message of this thread. My opinion on the J-10 is: We can't determinate for the moment if the jet fighter is from 4th or 4.5 Generation.

We are lacking of details the avionics, we don't know if there is a sort of Home-made Link 16, a sensors data fusion, any plan to integrate IRST on the plane and more detailled information on the Electronic War system.

A 4.5 Generation Jet are often fitted with those features:

- Advanced Radar with Mecanical Sweeping (or PESA/AESA), with Standard Pulse Doppler radar capabilities plus, NCTR, TWS, LPI, Terrain Following, "Fox-3" Capability with ability to guide several missiles on several Targets, High speed Microprocessor
- Full Digital FCS, with analogic backup.
- Digital Stores, Mission, engines and instruments control systems.
- Advanced Electronic War system, with chaff/flare programs, automated responses to threats, 360 ° Coverage, use of digital jamming techniques, algorithms used to treat electromagnetic waves.
- Ability to do both Air-to-Air & Air-to-Ground missions.
- Data Link system.
- Sensors data fusion
- Use of Smart Munitions (GPS or Laser bombs/missiles)
- Advanced Navigation system with GPS.

I think it's enough to explain what makes a Fighter Aircraft a 4.5 Gen, and it matches with those a/c:

F-15E/K/I/S/SG
F-16C/D Block 52+
F-16I Sufa
F-16E/F Block 60
SU-30 MKI
EF-2000
Rafale
Mirage 2000-5 Mk.II
Mirage 2000-9

So we can't say for the moment if the J-10 is matching with 4th or 4.5.

We are lacking of informations about EW system, about a possible Data link, What are the Radar Capabilities and some more.

But if there is something wrong lemme now...