New J-10 thread II

[jawad]

why would you think J-10's avionics is not as good as that of block 50 right now? If we compare Zhuk-ME with that of APG-68v9, they both have their advantages and disadvantages. And China reported rejected something at Zhuk-ME level for J-10.

i was answering to Diving Falcon that PAF might go for Western avionics for FC-20 if available that in 2010 or so likely delivery date for FC-20/J-10 China will able to compete against the Western avionics offered to PAF for FC-20.
Infact China have already beaten them in the bid for avionics of First 50 JF-17s and is likely to do so for later blocks also i think.
as far as Zhuk-ME is concerned i have dont have too much information on this radar and i think that it wont be available to PAF

 

[jawad]

let's suppose that J-10's radar is equall to the F-16 Block 52+' radar even then i see a a requirment of AESA that PAF is looking for the Second batch or third batch of JF-17 ,so think that they might look AESA FOR fc-20 ALSO
And i think that china will be able to meet this demand by 2010:china:

 

[nero]

let's suppose that J-10's radar is equall to the F-16 Block 52+' radar even then i see a a requirment of AESA that PAF is looking for the Second batch or third batch of JF-17 ,so think that they might look AESA FOR fc-20 ALSO
And i think that china will be able to meet this demand by 2010:china:

.

eventually pakistan may go for atleast 120 J-10s, but that will be spread over a period of time.

at present only 36 has been ordered , the last of whch will arrive by 2011.

the 250 JF-17s will arrive by 2012


.

 

[RedMercury]

Integrating AESA into the J-10 might be a good opportunity for China to get a look at production AESA fighter radars.

 

[Diving Falcon]

Right now it appears that FC-20/J-10 will be inducted into PAF after the F-16s. I don't think PAF is simply procuring J-10s for numbers, so it's for an additional set of capabilities.

tphuang

Is it possible for J-10 to be in the same league (note: I said league, not on-par, nor same performance) as Rafale and Eurofighter if equipped with systems from that generation?

 

[tphuang]

Right now it appears that FC-20/J-10 will be inducted into PAF after the F-16s. I don't think PAF is simply procuring J-10s for numbers, so it's for an additional set of capabilities.

tphuang

Is it possible for J-10 to be in the same league (note: I said league, not on-par, nor same performance) as Rafale and Eurofighter if equipped with systems from that generation?

I think there are a few things right now that J-10 is behind Typhoon on:
1. lack of supercruise
2. less stealthy
3. less advanced radar
4. less advanced missiles
5. lack of a built in IRST
6. most likely less combat awareness/weaker avionics

These are all things that can be achieved. supercruise and more stealthiness can be achieved with the next J-10 block (using more powerful engine and improved aerodynamics). Radar can be upgraded. People all talk about AESA radar, I really don't think China is that far behind if you look at how many platforms in service already use AESA radar. As for missiles, they can be developed. PL-8B has been in service for a long time and we know that a new generation WVRAAM has been in development. We also know upgraded PL-12 and long range AAM are also in development from previous interviews with the developer of SD-10. As long as you are willing to pay more money, you can get more advanced missiles and radar. If you just look at the number of PGMs and stand off missiles revealed from last November, it's really astonishing. Nobody thought China had that kind of ground attack strike inventory until that point. J-10 right now don't have IRST (although it can be equipped or carried in a pod), again this takes up space. If you really want it built in, it can be with an export version. As for improved situation awareness, additional avionics like towed decoy and other things, they can also be developed easily. You have a very good platform in J-10 that rivals typhoon/rafale in many flight performance category. It won't have the same payload/range as the other two, but it can be in the same league as far as air combat (especially once the first upgrade block comes along).

And once the twin-engined J-10 comes out, I don't think we'd be comparing that to typhoon. There is only one ultimate mission for it: that's to be able to defend against F-22/F-35 on Chinese soil.

 

[jawad]

I think there are a few things right now that J-10 is behind Typhoon on:
1. lack of supercruise
2. less stealthy
3. less advanced radar
4. less advanced missiles
5. lack of a built in IRST
6. most likely less combat awareness/weaker avionics

These are all things that can be achieved. supercruise and more stealthiness can be achieved with the next J-10 block (using more powerful engine and improved aerodynamics). Radar can be upgraded. People all talk about AESA radar, I really don't think China is that far behind if you look at how many platforms in service already use AESA radar. As for missiles, they can be developed. PL-8B has been in service for a long time and we know that a new generation WVRAAM has been in development. We also know upgraded PL-12 and long range AAM are also in development from previous interviews with the developer of SD-10. As long as you are willing to pay more money, you can get more advanced missiles and radar. If you just look at the number of PGMs and stand off missiles revealed from last November, it's really astonishing. Nobody thought China had that kind of ground attack strike inventory until that point. J-10 right now don't have IRST (although it can be equipped or carried in a pod), again this takes up space. If you really want it built in, it can be with an export version. As for improved situation awareness, additional avionics like towed decoy and other things, they can also be developed easily. You have a very good platform in J-10 that rivals typhoon/rafale in many flight performance category. It won't have the same payload/range as the other two, but it can be in the same league as far as air combat (especially once the first upgrade block comes along).

And once the twin-engined J-10 comes out, I don't think we'd be comparing that to typhoon. There is only one ultimate mission for it: that's to be able to defend against F-22/F-35 on Chinese soil.

very well said
i think that PAF will look for IRST for its FC-20 as it is looking for its JF-17 thunder as PAF will face Big SU-30MKIs
5th gen WVRAAM and LongRange-BVR will put FC-20 in same class of EF-2000 etc in all respect, i will really like to see ramjet SD-10

 

[wcheema]

why would you think J-10's avionics is not as good as that of block 50 right now? If we compare Zhuk-ME with that of APG-68v9, they both have their advantages and disadvantages. And China reported rejected something at Zhuk-ME level for J-10.

TPHuang

we should now consider the FC20 or j10 in the light of possible sanction by america of arms supply to pakistan, and should configure the air craft in the remaining possibilities of avionice, ecm/ew etc. your comments in this scene would be highly appriciated

wcheema

 

[akinkhoo]

i think improvement to the radar could be slower, a better radar requires a bigger engine and more space. so it would be more logical that the engine and body upgrade proceed in advance to the radar and weapon load.

don't really know right now, the chinese seem to be producing alot of stuff and not really committing yet as they seem to be able to produce better design every year. they might just make a new plane instead of upgrading them. J10 still doesn't have a domestic engine, they might refocus on twin engine that could use domestic engine (which are still no rated for single engine?).

 

[tphuang]

i think improvement to the radar could be slower, a better radar requires a bigger engine and more space. so it would be more logical that the engine and body upgrade proceed in advance to the radar and weapon load.

don't really know right now, the chinese seem to be producing alot of stuff and not really committing yet as they seem to be able to produce better design every year. they might just make a new plane instead of upgrading them. J10 still doesn't have a domestic engine, they might refocus on twin engine that could use domestic engine (which are still no rated for single engine?).

no domestic engine? What do you call WS-10A then?