New J-10 thread II

[szbd]

I am sorry for the silly question what the use for the satcom on the plane?more resist for ECM?Thx

When using radios for communication, you have to shift the frequency from time to time. Partly because of enemy ECM, but mainly because the condition of atomosphere changes frequently and the radios rely on the atomosphere to reflect signal. Also, the bandwidth of radio is quite narrow. These are OK for an army company but defenitely not good enough for an advanced fighter in the sky.

 

[Deino]

Hu ... finally another setback for the WS-10 ... or old news ???

China and Russia agree J-10 powerplant contract
By Siva Govindasamy

Rosoboronexport brokers $300 million deal for Beijing's new indigenous fighter

China has signed a contract with Russia's Rosoboronexport arms agency to buy 100 modified Salyut AL-31FN engines to power its indigenously designed and produced Chengdu J-10 fighter. The deal is worth around $300 million, according to Russian news reports, which say Beijing has also contracted Salyut to service the engines in its Sukhoi Su-27SK and Su-30MK2 fighters.

The contract comes about two months after Rosoboronexport agreed to sell China 100 Klimov RD-93 engines for its JF-17/FC-1 fighter a deal worth almost $270 million. It has not been confirmed whether Pakistan, which jointly developed the JF-17 and received its first two examples early this year, will receive aircraft powered by the RD-93, as Russia has stalled on approving the transfer.

"The [RD-93] engine is a contract between the Chinese and Russian governments. We are not a party to that contract," says Pakistan's chief of the air staff Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Mahmood. "The re-exporting of these engines to Pakistan is an issue between Pakistan and Chinese industry. They have ensured us there would be no impediment in this regard. We hope this engine issue will cease to be an issue."

Beijing is, meanwhile, developing its own engine so that it can export the J-10 and JF-17 without depending on Russia. Work on the WS-10A Taihang has been under way for almost 10 years, but has reportedly faced several technical difficulties. However, the engine programme entered its final design stage early last year, and Chinese officials hope to fly a J-10 powered by the WS-10A by year-end.

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[fishhead]

Hu ... finally another setback for the WS-10 ... or old news ???

It's not the setback, as I said some time ago, WS-10A production is simply not muture.

Somebody mentioned in Chinese website

由WS10A导致的J-11B现状

最新的沈飞消息，此型号的两架原型机正在紧张的试飞，进展还是比较顺利的，但是这些改进并未得到军方明确的定购意向，推测可能是因为发动机还是没有用上国产的WS10A。据说沈飞要试生产，大概数量可能在8架左右。

顺便说以下WS10A，发动机已经进入生产阶段，但是由于我国的工艺问题，使得产量太低，能满足J10的要求就不错了，因为最终要的一次铸造成型的单晶空心叶片成品率太低，大概在5％左右（而欧洲的在15－20％）所以现在存在着单价过高，质量不稳定，产量过低的原因。如果真的要全面装备全军还得等待时日。

2 J-11Bs are in flight test now. PLAAF hasn't decided to equip it. Basically the problem is WS-10A engine which can't keep up with the number required.

The bottle neck is the single-crystal hollow blade. The production yield rate is only 5%, compared with European 15%-20%.

WS-10A production at least needs another 3 years to get mutured.

 

[tphuang]

It's not the setback, as I said some time ago, WS-10A production is simply not muture.

Somebody mentioned in Chinese website

由WS10A导致的J-11B现状

最新的沈飞消息，此型号的两架原型机正在紧张的试飞，进展还是比较顺利的，但是这些改进并未得到军方明确的定购意向，推测可能是因为发动机还是没有用上国产的WS10A。据说沈飞要试生产，大概数量可能在8架左右。

顺便说以下WS10A，发动机已经进入生产阶段，但是由于我国的工艺问题，使得产量太低，能满足J10的要求就不错了，因为最终要的一次铸造成型的单晶空心叶片成品率太低，大概在5％左右（而欧洲的在15－20％）所以现在存在着单价过高，质量不稳定，产量过低的原因。如果真的要全面装备全军还得等待时日。

2 J-11Bs are in flight test now. PLAAF hasn't decided to equip it. Basically the problem is WS-10A engine which can't keep up with the number required.

The bottle neck is the single-crystal hollow blade. The production yield rate is only 5%, compared with European 15%-20%.

WS-10A production at least needs another 3 years to get mutured.

No, this is a typical rumoured bs piece on Chinese bbs.

As for WS-10A not being matured, who said it's mature? You think you are going to get an engine mature by not using it?

Until we see more on this apparent new deal, it is nothing to judge on. There is not a single Russian article on this in the newswire. And my favourite part is the part on China contacting Russia for replacement on sk and mkk, since that deal has already been signed. Makes me think more and more that the article writer just went back in time a couple of years.

 

[crobato]

Hu ... finally another setback for the WS-10 ... or old news ???

Very old news actually. That was the contract signed in 2005. The RD-93 contract was signed in the same year two months earlier.

With double digit inflation on the Russian side and US dollar going down to record levels, a new order of 100 AL-31FN and RD-93 engines would definitely not cost the same as the old contracts.

 

[crobato]

fishhead, I have to agree with tphuang. The article is BS or it is outdated by at least two years. The publicity around the WS-10A and J-11B is very good indication of the two coming into service this year. In fact the CCTV clip that was interviewing the WS-10A designer showed a clip where they were discussing the engine already installed on a J-11. The clip also showed like two or three planes in the process of assembly.

Already the article is wrong on one point; there are at least 4 J-11Bs that have been identified so far; three with perchant numbers 523, 524 and 525, and a plane with standard PLAAF color scheme now assigned a testing and training regiment. There can be more of the grey ones, this plane may denote the approved version going into service and production. The Dingxin base from Google Earth has at least four grey Sues visible.

 

[fishhead]

I really can't tell at today. The J-11b is not in large volume deployment at least for now. And nothing shows that WS-10A is in the export ready status. So I hold my suspicious view before anything real can prove that WS-10A is in mass production.

 

[crobato]

Hu ... finally another setback for the WS-10 ... or old news ???

Reread the full article. The article itself is new, but the structure of the article is quite suspiciously old because the 100 engine deal for the RD-93 was signed in 2005 for that same amount. I have grave doubts that any new deal will have the same price as 2005 since the falling dollar and the Russian double digit inflation would mean higher prices. Every defense deal in Russia is being renegotiated for a higher price for one reason or another.

The journalism is highly questionable, when you reached this statement.

The contract comes about two months after Rosoboronexport agreed to sell China 100 Klimov RD-93 engines for its JF-17/FC-1 fighter a deal worth almost $270 million. It has not been confirmed whether Pakistan, which jointly developed the JF-17 and received its first two examples early this year, will receive aircraft powered by the RD-93, as Russia has stalled on approving the transfer.

Duh.

Didn't the two aircraft recieved by Pakistan have the RD-93 in the first place? Isn't it confirmed that there will be no impediment?

Two months ago there isn't any new contract of RD-93. Rather what is still currently in place was the contract signed in 2005, where most of the engines are still not delivered due to the issue of second export.

 

[crobato]

I really can't tell at today. The J-11b is not in large volume deployment at least for now. And nothing shows that WS-10A is in the export ready status. So I hold my suspicious view before anything real can prove that WS-10A is in mass production.

Export ready status is something else. Before it becomes export ready, it has to be proven in domestic use, and the only way to do that is to bring the engine into service no matter what. At this stage you really have to bring the engine into quantity field use as there is no skipping this stage of development.

 

[kca90]

To Crobato: I want to know what's your take on this matter.
Now. Why would China be in a hurry to export J-10 to pakistan? If J-10 is considered as the top of
the line fighter in China. Should not China keep them for her own use? Or is the exported J-10
inferior in package? Or Is J-11B superior to J-10?