New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

siegecrossbow said:

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Yeah, that's an old quote
Honestly, the US manufacturing situation is a mess
There is essentially no battery supply chain outside of Tesla.
No battery = no EV, simple as that.

The Cadillac Lyriq was announced ages ago, the delivery is still months for a car.


The F-150 only recently has inventory, and that is because the high price and high financing charges are slowing sales

Ford wants to open a plant, and the roadblocks are well known

The situation can improve if the US politicians stop trying to pursue a win-lose strategy.

mossen said:

I just don't see how the legacy American legacy automakers can compete with the Chinese. Even Tesla is falling behind (look at how much more expensive Cybertruck became once available, and how delayed). I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that the call to ban imports even from Chinese-owned factories in Mexico will grow louder as it becomes clear that US legacy automakers can't easily catch up despite gobs of cash thrown at them.

Ultimately, some of them will have to either go bankrupt or merge.

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The problem is gobs of cash with nowhere to go. You are trying to stop every cent from going to China, but China is where the industry is right now. Mobileye and Velodyne were the leaders in LIDAR maybe just 5 years ago, now Mobileye's value is down
Velodyne was bought out by Ouster and is turning to America's courts to try to beat Hesai
Again, without any increase in US production, all these parts makers are in trouble, because they simply aren't going to scale up.

Cybertruck is a joke. It was always going to be expensive. That was just Elon's ego and excess cash. The equivalent to Job's G4 Cube. All of Tesla's other cars are designed to be pumped out cheaply, save $2 by removing radar, save $50 by not having a driver's LCD, Gigapress to produce a single piece and reduce welding and stamping processes, etc. The difficulty in getting the Cybertruck into production shows it was not able to take advantage of the existing scale.

mossen said:

I just don't see how the legacy American legacy automakers can compete with the Chinese. Even Tesla is falling behind (look at how much more expensive Cybertruck became once available, and how delayed). I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that the call to ban imports even from Chinese-owned factories in Mexico will grow louder as it becomes clear that US legacy automakers can't easily catch up despite gobs of cash thrown at them.

Ultimately, some of them will have to either go bankrupt or merge.

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Mexico production can serve other markets than just the US though, such as south America.

Michaelsinodef said:

Mexico production can serve other markets than just the US though, such as south America.

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Very, very few cars made in Mexico get exported to South America. I don't really think the logistics southward are well developed.

I know that Brazil used to have very steep tariffs on car imports to stimulate local production. Argentina was probably similar.

Yangwang U8's new auto drone hangar system is pretty cool

City NOA on Denza. This is going to be released on N7 in Q1. U8 to get it in Q3


More on BYD's smart car architecture and such. Again, very impressive stuff


Check this thread, they also have 2-way satcom now as well as their own IR night sensor and 4D MMW radar


WCF on BYD's smart car efforts

more news.

Qin L getting spotted and specs are coming out. So, should be longer than Qin+


DJI with their City NOA product showcased @ CES. Should be unveiled with production models at Beijing auto show


BYD spending 5B RMB on building world's first dedicated all-terrain racing ground


Check out Yangwang self parking features

[Comments]
There are some interesting details in the article that indicate a boom inside an otherwise "boring" 2023 Chinese economy. The author is a Tokyo-based journalist. In the article, he diplomatically yet clearly describes the fact that Japan auto is in trouble. And he does not sound optimistic that Japan can catch up anytime soon.

To quote some of his quotes in the article:
"""
The question, of course, is whether it may already be too late as Tesla, Detroit, Germany and China beat Toyota to the market. “No one,” says Michael Dunne, CEO of auto industry advisory ZoZoGo, “can match BYD on price. Period. Boardrooms in America, Europe, Korea and Japan are in a state of shock.”
......

What’s more, Dunne says, “China’s market, the world’s largest, no longer needs or wants foreign makers. Jeep, Suzuki and Mitsubishi are already gone. VW, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, and others will depart within five years. GM, once the poster child for successful US business in China, will likely be gone, too. GM sales in China are already down by more than 50% from their 2017 peak.”
"""

4Runner said:

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[Comments]
There are some interesting details in the article that indicate a boom inside an otherwise "boring" 2023 Chinese economy. The author is a Tokyo-based journalist. In the article, he diplomatically yet clearly describes the fact that Japan auto is in trouble. And he does not sound optimistic that Japan can catch up anytime soon.

To quote some of his quotes in the article:
"""
The question, of course, is whether it may already be too late as Tesla, Detroit, Germany and China beat Toyota to the market. “No one,” says Michael Dunne, CEO of auto industry advisory ZoZoGo, “can match BYD on price. Period. Boardrooms in America, Europe, Korea and Japan are in a state of shock.”
......

What’s more, Dunne says, “China’s market, the world’s largest, no longer needs or wants foreign makers. Jeep, Suzuki and Mitsubishi are already gone. VW, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, and others will depart within five years. GM, once the poster child for successful US business in China, will likely be gone, too. GM sales in China are already down by more than 50% from their 2017 peak.”
"""

Click to expand...

I find it interesting that Japan has become so uncompetitive in battery technology, they invented the Lithium Ion battery and were basically the leaders in battery tech from the 80's to the 00's. Panasonic working with Tesla used to be number 1, Nissan AESC was number 3 even just ~10 years ago

Now AESC was sold off to a Envision (a Chinese company and still the Nissan Ariya depends on that company) and Panasonic is nowhere near BYD, let alone CATL

As I said about the US Industry, without those batteries, there are no EVs. If Japanese companies are not making strategic partnerships with Chinese battery companies, there it will be a struggle to make inroads into EVs. The article makes mention of Japanese companies promising to invest in EV production in Thailand, yet Japanese EV sales are miniscule. Promising to invest with things that don't exist...

4Runner said:

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[Comments]
There are some interesting details in the article that indicate a boom inside an otherwise "boring" 2023 Chinese economy. The author is a Tokyo-based journalist. In the article, he diplomatically yet clearly describes the fact that Japan auto is in trouble. And he does not sound optimistic that Japan can catch up anytime soon.

To quote some of his quotes in the article:
"""
The question, of course, is whether it may already be too late as Tesla, Detroit, Germany and China beat Toyota to the market. “No one,” says Michael Dunne, CEO of auto industry advisory ZoZoGo, “can match BYD on price. Period. Boardrooms in America, Europe, Korea and Japan are in a state of shock.”
......

What’s more, Dunne says, “China’s market, the world’s largest, no longer needs or wants foreign makers. Jeep, Suzuki and Mitsubishi are already gone. VW, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, and others will depart within five years. GM, once the poster child for successful US business in China, will likely be gone, too. GM sales in China are already down by more than 50% from their 2017 peak.”
"""

Click to expand...

Legacy automakers from S. Korean aren't doing great in China either.

The writing is on the wall: after consolidations and bankruptcies, probably only a dozen or so automakers will remain in China eventually.

Zeekr is trying to get into the US market by cooperating with a subsidiary of google.

BYD Sea Lion 07 is a nice looking SUV coupe with a projected price tag of $27,000-30,000.