New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
Electric Vehicles especially with those giga presses making large single pieces of vehicle underbodies. Any future repairs would cost you an arm and a leg.
Yes, you can see with current Teslas where a small bump in a ICE car that would just require a bumper to be swapped out to suddenly require $10k+ in repair costs. Any dent in the chassis will also consequently damage the battery, which cause insurers to be reluctant to insuring EVs.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Many people correlates Japanese Car as reliable, BUT with mass availability of spare parts it isn't, it also breakdown frequently. That is the only selling point of Toyota, the cheap availability of spare parts therefore when damage can be repaired in a instant and be of used.

That is a lesson the Chinese Car manufacturer should learn to break into a new market, After Sales Services, aside from having a good car they should stock up a lot on spare parts.

An example FORD EVEREST TITANUIM beat Toyota Fortuner by a mile in both design and performance, BUT Ford price it at a premium with expensive maintenance due to high cost of spare parts.

Highly skeptical of these claims.

Especially remembering the introduction of the Direct Injection era. Just checking Forum boards 2014-2020 on direct injection, I know which brands complained the most about it. Volkswagen, Ford, and Chevrolet? Dozens of threads on carbon build up. Toyota? Not so much, thanks to Toyota's implementation of both port and direct injection.

I'd be interested in seeing actual statistics, but I haven't seen any large scale mechanics surveys or information that would be impartial and independently verified.

However, from experience with talking with mechanics, listening to industry podcasts, and reading relevant literature, American brands tend to be some of the most unreliable. The "Gap" has closed substantially, and Japanes automakers lag in other areas, but as a general rule, there are a lot of reasons to go for non-American car brands.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Highly skeptical of these claims.

Especially remembering the introduction of the Direct Injection era. Just checking Forum boards 2014-2020 on direct injection, I know which brands complained the most about it. Volkswagen, Ford, and Chevrolet? Dozens of threads on carbon build up. Toyota? Not so much, thanks to Toyota's implementation of both port and direct injection.

I'd be interested in seeing actual statistics, but I haven't seen any large scale mechanics surveys or information that would be impartial and independently verified.
There are a lot that are not reported in specific model, especially their basic entries, why is Hyundai and KIA are able to get a sliced of the market?
However, from experience with talking with mechanics, listening to industry podcasts, and reading relevant literature, American brands tend to be some of the most unreliable. The "Gap" has closed substantially, and Japanes automakers lag in other areas, but as a general rule, there are a lot of reasons to go for non-American car brands.
Regarding FORD Everest it was made in SEA with parts produce in China. After driving both, I can say Ford beat the Toyota by a mile, the ride quality ,the build and also the interior. In ASEAN, buying a car is a major decision, so maintainability and cost is a major factor in purchasing.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
BYD in Malaysia and Japan
they are doing well in Malaysia.

Japan, just 440 sales since delivery started at end of March. I'm not concerned at all. Until they get export logistics, transportation & production figured out, sales won't come up in more competitive markets
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
For the people who know the market in China, why do people even want Teslas? I’ve driven them before and quite frankly its a bit of a gimmick to me.

Quality is variable due to shit QC. The actual car itself probably has the best range and handling, but the value proposition is crap. I’d rather wait for better prices or better made vehicles.

The new steering wheel is quite frankly weird. The lack of physical controls is a downside… I mean, it’s an interesting vehicle and I understand why many of my fellow middle class Americans are obsessed with it, but why would this fad have traction in China?

Y’all are spoiled for choice and Tesla still sells as well as it does?
QC is definitely shit for the interior, but like you said, they have excellent range and acceleration that is at par with or better than the most expensive ICE cars on the market while being 10% the price. They also have a good user interaction system and are sleek looking.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
I may Buy a Jetour, It's so futuristic unlike the Japanese and SK cars. I don't mind the problem of spare parts because it's cheap at PHP1,300,000 ($23,000), the Japanese and Korean equivalent cost nearly at PHP2,000,000 ($36,000) with spartan design full of plastic, add on like leather seats and sun roof may cost you an additional $6,000.
I classify Chinese cars into two categories; 1. Mature and 2 Immature. If I were to buy a Chinese car, at least, I would select those well-known brands like BYD, MG, Great Wall, NIO, XPeng...
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
There are a lot that are not reported in specific model, especially their basic entries, why is Hyundai and KIA are able to get a sliced of the market?

Sorry, I don't really understand what you are trying to say, but let me try to answer some potential questions.

Kia/Hyundai do have a fairly solid chunk of the auto market. They initially entered in the same way that Toyota/Honda once did, undercutting incumbents by offering very cheap vehicles and targetting the "value" segment of the market. In the last 10 years they've steadily moved upstream and their cars have become more luxurious and sophisticated, but they are still having issues with their brand being seen as the "cheap" option.

They're also not immune to their own issues. KIA Group vehicles have had issues with both their transmissions and engines, and as a former Hyundai owner myself (2003 Hyundai Sonata), I can confidently say that they have their own share of problems. It's not a trouble free car.

Regarding FORD Everest it was made in SEA with parts produce in China. After driving both, I can say Ford beat the Toyota by a mile, the ride quality ,the build and also the interior. In ASEAN, buying a car is a major decision, so maintainability and cost is a major factor in purchasing.

These things don't have much to do with reliability though.

Thing is, Toyotas and Hondas have never had the best ride, or build quality. That's not really their strength. Though the panel gaps are flawless, and the car is solidly put together, the materials are definitely inferior. There are more hard plastics and fewer premium materials. I also think that the technology has only caught up in the last 2-5 years. The Infotainment in the newest vehicles like the 2023 Toyota Tundra is solid, but for like 20 years, Lexus had that retarded touchpad to navigate infotainment, and Toyota/Honda's systems looked like they belonged in 2005.

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I've never been a fan of Toyota's ride. It's optimized to be more "boat-like" with poor body control (though dynamics in cars like Toyota Grand Highlander are excellent for a vehicle its size), and it has always had a safety-first approach. So I'm not surprised that you like Ford's ride better. Though I tend to prefer Honda's ride. Hondas tend to be stiffer, but have better body control, and excellent turn-in for front wheel drive vehicles. Honda Civic is arguably the best handling FWD mainstream sedan in its class. However, to take it back to reliability, Toyota's mechanical drivetrain is bulletproof. Their engines, transmissions, and basically everything connecting those components are probably some of the most reliable things ever made. The things I've seen Toyota 4-poppers do just boggles the mind. The amount of abuse they can survive is pretty obscene.

But yes, Toyota can be woefully behind in some aspects and to be honest, their mythical reliability is mostly a gimmick. A lot of people don't keep cars for longer than 10 years, and if possible, I would buy a German cars over any Japanese cars simply because they are much more fun to drive and tend to be much more luxurious. My next vehicle is probably going to be a hybrid due to the absolute shit state of American EV infrastructure. I'd love to have Chinese EV options, but that's probably not going to happen unless Jackie Chan becomes President.

So I might be stuck with a Toyota anyway.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Highly skeptical of these claims.

Especially remembering the introduction of the Direct Injection era. Just checking Forum boards 2014-2020 on direct injection, I know which brands complained the most about it. Volkswagen, Ford, and Chevrolet? Dozens of threads on carbon build up. Toyota? Not so much, thanks to Toyota's implementation of both port and direct injection.

I'd be interested in seeing actual statistics, but I haven't seen any large scale mechanics surveys or information that would be impartial and independently verified.

However, from experience with talking with mechanics, listening to industry podcasts, and reading relevant literature, American brands tend to be some of the most unreliable. The "Gap" has closed substantially, and Japanes automakers lag in other areas, but as a general rule, there are a lot of reasons to go for non-American car brands.

Ford Everest is an Aussie designed South East Asian as in Thailand and Indonesia manufactured vehicle based on the Ford Ranger chassis. You might say it is the Ford Ranger SUV skin or Ford Ranger turned SUV.

To go on further, the Ford Ranger itself is a non American vehicle, referring to the recent model that isn't a Mazda pickup rebadge. It is Aussie designed Asian made. The Ford Ranger you see in the US is the same vehicle but with a modified chassis to meet US crash standards and made in US plants. The Aussies and the Asians have the new generation Ford Ranger by about a full year at least before the US. The Asian Aussie version of the Ranger are typically powered by turbo diesels while the US version is powered by a turbo 2.3 liter Ecoboost. In terms of long distance reliability, fuel economy and sheer torque, these turbo diesels like the 2.0 Biturbo would smack the pants down on gasoline engines.

Against the Rangers is the Hilux with it's SUV counterpart, the Fortuner and it's MPV form, the Innova. These are typically powered by the 1GD-FTV turbo diesel not seen in the US, with gas power by the 2TR 2.7 liter, also known as the HiAce engine and base Tacoma pickup engine. Is the Toyota turbo diesel more reliable than the Ford Biturbo and Powerstroke turbo diesels? I'm not sure. When it comes to the diesel market it's a whole new game and Toyota isn't standing heads above shoulders from the competition here with the plethora of high quality turbo diesel engines. The torque on the turbodiesel Hilux actually surpasses that of the US Tacoma with the V6 engine while delivering double the fuel mileage.

Another shocker is the turbo diesel Ford Rangers and Everest are much cheaper than their US counterparts, with base models under $20k USD equivalents. Ditto with other turbodiesel pickups from Hilux to Mitsubishi Stradas to Isuzu DMax.

The problem with the Toyota three sisters --- Hilux, Innova, Fortuner --- is their relatively harsh suspension setups, and those looking for a softer ride will find another vehicle. These are all ladder in frame types. The Everest is a ladder frame SUV with a turbo diesel so this mom and pop SUV has underneath, true off road chops in it's DNA. The Ford Biturbo produces 500NM of torque as low as 1750 RPM which is incredible for only a 2.0 liter engine.

As common rail turbo diesels, DI issues don't apply, it's another set of issues centered around DPF and EGR. Unfortunately Toyota
1GD-FTV turbo diesel are notorious for such issues so this isn't an area where Toyota has an advantage.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ford Everest is an Aussie designed South East Asian as in Thailand and Indonesia manufactured vehicle based on the Ford Ranger chassis. You might say it is the Ford Ranger SUV skin or Ford Ranger turned SUV.

To go on further, the Ford Ranger itself is a non American vehicle, referring to the recent model that isn't a Mazda pickup rebadge. It is Aussie designed Asian made. The Ford Ranger you see in the US is the same vehicle but with a modified chassis to meet US crash standards and made in US plants. The Aussies and the Asians have the new generation Ford Ranger by about a full year at least before the US. The Asian Aussie version of the Ranger are typically powered by turbo diesels while the US version is powered by a turbo 2.3 liter Ecoboost. In terms of long distance reliability, fuel economy and sheer torque, these turbo diesels like the 2.0 Biturbo would smack the pants down on gasoline engines.

Against the Rangers is the Hilux with it's SUV counterpart, the Fortuner and it's MPV form, the Innova. These are typically powered by the 1GD-FTV turbo diesel not seen in the US, with gas power by the 2TR 2.7 liter, also known as the HiAce engine and base Tacoma pickup engine. Is the Toyota turbo diesel more reliable than the Ford Biturbo and Powerstroke turbo diesels? I'm not sure. When it comes to the diesel market it's a whole new game and Toyota isn't standing heads above shoulders from the competition here with the plethora of high quality turbo diesel engines. The torque on the turbodiesel Hilux actually surpasses that of the US Tacoma with the V6 engine while delivering double the fuel mileage.

Another shocker is the turbo diesel Ford Rangers and Everest are much cheaper than their US counterparts, with base models under $20k USD equivalents. Ditto with other turbodiesel pickups from Hilux to Mitsubishi Stradas to Isuzu DMax.

The problem with the Toyota three sisters --- Hilux, Innova, Fortuner --- is their relatively harsh suspension setups, and those looking for a softer ride will find another vehicle. These are all ladder in frame types. The Everest is a ladder frame SUV with a turbo diesel so this mom and pop SUV has underneath, true off road chops in it's DNA. The Ford Biturbo produces 500NM of torque as low as 1750 RPM which is incredible for only a 2.0 liter engine.

As common rail turbo diesels, DI issues don't apply, it's another set of issues centered around DPF and EGR. Unfortunately Toyota
1GD-FTV turbo diesel are notorious for such issues so this isn't an area where Toyota has an advantage.
Thanks @Tam you explain it so well, when driving a Ford Everest is like driving a car, while that of Fortuner is like a truck, both compete on the same category and almost the same price BUT the availability of cheap spare parts is Ford downfall, it really cost you an arm and leg to maintain.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Ford Everest is an Aussie designed South East Asian as in Thailand and Indonesia manufactured vehicle based on the Ford Ranger chassis. You might say it is the Ford Ranger SUV skin or Ford Ranger turned SUV.

To go on further, the Ford Ranger itself is a non American vehicle, referring to the recent model that isn't a Mazda pickup rebadge. It is Aussie designed Asian made. The Ford Ranger you see in the US is the same vehicle but with a modified chassis to meet US crash standards and made in US plants. The Aussies and the Asians have the new generation Ford Ranger by about a full year at least before the US. The Asian Aussie version of the Ranger are typically powered by turbo diesels while the US version is powered by a turbo 2.3 liter Ecoboost. In terms of long distance reliability, fuel economy and sheer torque, these turbo diesels like the 2.0 Biturbo would smack the pants down on gasoline engines.

Against the Rangers is the Hilux with it's SUV counterpart, the Fortuner and it's MPV form, the Innova. These are typically powered by the 1GD-FTV turbo diesel not seen in the US, with gas power by the 2TR 2.7 liter, also known as the HiAce engine and base Tacoma pickup engine. Is the Toyota turbo diesel more reliable than the Ford Biturbo and Powerstroke turbo diesels? I'm not sure. When it comes to the diesel market it's a whole new game and Toyota isn't standing heads above shoulders from the competition here with the plethora of high quality turbo diesel engines. The torque on the turbodiesel Hilux actually surpasses that of the US Tacoma with the V6 engine while delivering double the fuel mileage.

Another shocker is the turbo diesel Ford Rangers and Everest are much cheaper than their US counterparts, with base models under $20k USD equivalents. Ditto with other turbodiesel pickups from Hilux to Mitsubishi Stradas to Isuzu DMax.

The problem with the Toyota three sisters --- Hilux, Innova, Fortuner --- is their relatively harsh suspension setups, and those looking for a softer ride will find another vehicle. These are all ladder in frame types. The Everest is a ladder frame SUV with a turbo diesel so this mom and pop SUV has underneath, true off road chops in it's DNA. The Ford Biturbo produces 500NM of torque as low as 1750 RPM which is incredible for only a 2.0 liter engine.

As common rail turbo diesels, DI issues don't apply, it's another set of issues centered around DPF and EGR. Unfortunately Toyota
1GD-FTV turbo diesel are notorious for such issues so this isn't an area where Toyota has an advantage.

Toyota gasoline engines aren’t heads and shoulders above the competition in terms of performance, just in being trouble fee and maintenance friendly.

But yes, we don’t have widespread adoption of diesel engines in the States. So I wouldn’t know.
 
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