New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tphuang

tphuang

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supercat said:
Nio ES6 and Lixiang One are some of the top selling luxury SUVs, while Hongqi H9 and Nio ET7 are among the top selling luxury sedans, even among ICEVs.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568241422784151554

Nio ET5 will be a strong competitor of Tesla Model 3.
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Let's not just buy in the hype. NIO sold about 3000 ET7 last month. They have yet to start producing ET5s. They think they can produce like 10k a month. Even if they hit that, it's a fraction of BYD Han is selling right now and less than model 3. I really can't take NIO seriously until they can get their production up.

I'd expect Denza D9 to outsell ES6 & ET7 combined by December.
 
56860

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coolgod said:
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It would be funny to see BYD producing BYD Han in Hungary for the European market, first the Yuan invasion of Japan, now the Hun&Han invasion of Europe. I hope BYD keeps the cultural elements, at least the Chinese characters of the 汉 唐 元 on the export models, looks better than a generic BYD logo or english translation imo.

Some of the BYD Han reviews outside China still have the 汉 character aesthetics, while some of them are replaced. Does anyone know what the actual models exported look like?
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My BYD Atto 3 (Singapore) has no characters, just Build Your Dreams on the backside.
 
tphuang

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I've seen the pricing for Chinese EVs in the German market.

Tang EV 60k EUR
Han EV 59.5K EUR
Atto 3 35.5 to 39.5K EUR
ET7 58.7K EUR

You may notice that in China, Tang and Han are a lot cheaper than ET7. Tang is selling for $320k RMB on the high end and Han is selling for $285K RMB on the high end. ET7 starts at $448k RMB or $378k without battery (pay for battery service). It seems pretty ridiculous to me that NIO would charge export market as much as it does in Chinese market, since there is the added cost of shipping to Europe and having a bunch of service centers in Europe. BYD says it makes twice the amount of profit on export cars as it does in the domestic market. So there you have it. If you want to argue that Han/Tang aren't as premium as ET7/ES8, the export pricing would indicate they are. The real issue is that NIO produces so few cars that it can maintain a high pricing point in China.
 
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henrik

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tphuang said:
I've seen the pricing for Chinese EVs in the German market.

Tang EV 60k EUR
Han EV 59.5K EUR
Atto 3 35.5 to 39.5K EUR
ET7 58.7K EUR

You may notice that in China, Tang and Han are a lot cheaper than ET7. Tang is selling for $320k RMB on the high end and Han is selling for $285K RMB on the high end. ET7 starts at $448k RMB or $378k without battery (pay for battery service). It seems pretty ridiculous to me that NIO would charge export market as much as it does in Chinese market, since there is the added cost of shipping to Europe and having a bunch of service centers in Europe. BYD says it makes twice the amount of profit on export cars as it does in the domestic market. So there you have it. If you want to argue that Han/Tang aren't as premium as ET7/ES8, the export pricing would indicate they are. The real issue is that NIO produces so few cars that it can maintain a high pricing point in China.
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How come BYD makes more in export markets when there is shipping costs? How much is byd selling the Seal for in exports market? The Seal is going to hit tesla model 3 hard in foreign sales, so byd might sell at higher prices?
 
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henrik

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tphuang said:
I've seen the pricing for Chinese EVs in the German market.

Tang EV 60k EUR
Han EV 59.5K EUR
Atto 3 35.5 to 39.5K EUR
ET7 58.7K EUR

You may notice that in China, Tang and Han are a lot cheaper than ET7. Tang is selling for $320k RMB on the high end and Han is selling for $285K RMB on the high end. ET7 starts at $448k RMB or $378k without battery (pay for battery service). It seems pretty ridiculous to me that NIO would charge export market as much as it does in Chinese market, since there is the added cost of shipping to Europe and having a bunch of service centers in Europe. BYD says it makes twice the amount of profit on export cars as it does in the domestic market. So there you have it. If you want to argue that Han/Tang aren't as premium as ET7/ES8, the export pricing would indicate they are. The real issue is that NIO produces so few cars that it can maintain a high pricing point in China.
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Nio's new Neo park factory can produce 300,000 cars per year, 600,000 cars if working two shifts.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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henrik said:
How come BYD makes more in export markets when there is shipping costs? How much is byd selling the Seal for in exports market? The Seal is going to hit tesla model 3 hard in foreign sales, so byd might sell at higher prices?
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They have more in export markets because they charge a lot more. The Han/Tang prices here are 50% higher than in China. Tesla model 3/y are also sold at higher prices outside of China. BYD seems to be pricing to what they think the market is willing to pay. If there is fixed shipping cost, import taxes and operational costs in foreign countries, then it makes more sense for them to export expensive cars than cheap ones. NIO on the other hand seems to be pricing cars cheaper abroad, which makes no sense at all.
 
siegecrossbow

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tphuang said:
They have more in export markets because they charge a lot more. The Han/Tang prices here are 50% higher than in China. Tesla model 3/y are also sold at higher prices outside of China. BYD seems to be pricing to what they think the market is willing to pay. If there is fixed shipping cost, import taxes and operational costs in foreign countries, then it makes more sense for them to export expensive cars than cheap ones. NIO on the other hand seems to be pricing cars cheaper abroad, which makes no sense at all.
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Good thing that they are harvesting leeks abroad instead of domestically.

In other news.

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